h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

"I think it's because most people vote Green as a social conscience type thing: it's something they feel they should do. Introduce preferential voting and people are more likely to salve their consciences by putting Greens as 2nd or 3rd preference, after one of the main parties."

There's probably something in that, but you have to weigh it against the number of people who vote for one of "the main parties" as the lesser of two evils, but don't actually support them.

I'll be voting in favour. It's really quite simple - do we want a system that's more democratic, or don't we? Do we want a system that pretty much *requires* tactical voting, or do we want one that allows every voter to make a much more nuanced judgement about the available candidates? Should we have an MP who gets the majority of first choices, or one who can command the broadest possible consensus of support across her constituency?

I think discussions about the consequences for various parties shouldn't really enter into it. This decision will be a momentous one - possibly a once in a generation opportunity to change the voting system. Party politics will change and change and change again. We've seen that in the last few years.

My concern is that the very muted coverage that there's been so far of what's a huge issue will effectively kill off any chance of change.

The replies here, from people who are supposed to be intelligent, worry me. If this is what intelligent people are voting for, BoB knows what the unintelligent masses will do.

I'm leaving the coun...

Oh, wait, I already did.

RF

Well, my points were basically about the mechanics of voting. I think it's important that people know what they are voting about.

So naive. You think people will actually vote on that?

That was my point (which nobody seems to have addressed) in post 11.

RF

So you've found the land of the unfailingly superbrained RF? Must be amazing.

Perhaps your point is more pertinent when you're on the other side of the planet. I haven't spoken to anyone who views it as a referendum about the current government.

Let the electors in the United Kingdom choose - it really is that simple.

Yup, their brains are in their odd-shaped balls.

No, really, effers, do you think that people have been using rationality? Let me give this as an example:

>> I'll be voting 'YES'. One significant reason is that, if the result comes out as 'NO', it will be taken (especially by those with an agenda) to mean the public voting for the status quo, and the system needs to change <<

Which basically says "I'll be voting on a different question to that asked"

Which is stupid. Stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid. Can I emphasise any more how *stupid* this is? It's STUPID!!!

I'm not claiming NZers are more intelligent. I'm saying that people in the UK will be voting on the wrong question, interpreting it individually, and expecting the result to indicate their preference. Which is...stupid.

Anyone who actually realises this (and I expect this to be less than 10%, although there's no actual, verifiable way of measuring this) would vote for the status quo.

RF

This post has been removed.

"I'm saying that people in the UK will be voting on the wrong question, interpreting it individually, and expecting the result to indicate their preference. Which is...stupid."

"Brits are too thick for democracy".

Well, they voted for Blair 3 times. QED.

RF

Did they vote for Blair or vote against the Conservative Party?

This post has been removed.

this for a game of soldiers. ing thought police.

RF

It wasn't meant as an argument, actually. I was just pointing out that you seem to know *how* people will vote, and *why* they will vote that way, without actually talking to any of them.

Well I did hear it once suggested that the mods might be kiwis, or possibly Belgians?

There is an argument that AV is less democratic as it gives some
people more than one vote - if your first choice gets knocked out
you get another go (etc).

There is an argument that AV could lead to more coalition
governments. This could lead to wishy-washy policies that are less
effective due to watering down of the policy or / and adding in
of sweeteners to get coalition agreement.

This could also lead to greater power for the smaller third and
fourth parties (Liberal democrats*, Unionists etc) in deciding
whether the first or second parties are to form the governing
coalition (tails wagging the dog).

*It seems likely the Lib Democrats will be annihilated in the next
election.

Personally I don't think AV is going to solve the problems within
British politics and may make matters worse.

RF does make a good point actually. I know some people IRL, intelligent people, who like me, have conceived such a loathing for the Lib Dems, especially Clegg, that they find it hard to be really rational about how to vote; it's like stay with FPTP because it was the referrendum on it that *bought* the Lib Dems agreement to keep the Tories in power for 5 years.

In reality I think people I know..will end up voting according to what makes reasoned sense in their minds. I hope I will.

Lets hope there is plenty of discussion about it in the media so people will have some idea how to vote.

I loathe referenda. But I realise if its a question of examining the way democracy itself works, there needs to be one.

>> I'm voting yes as an indication that I want change, and in
the hope that a yes vote (and successful implementation) will show
that change is actually possible.<<


Hi Kelli: you need to be careful because in voting for AV in the
hope for a "change" you will actually be getting "more of the same",
that is more coalition run governments (Clegg - Cameron or Clegg -
Milliband, or Cameron - Clegg - Salmond and so forth). The present
state of the country is partly due to disastrous short term policies
of previous governments and the type of people that run for
parliament. Some of the coalition policies themselves will likely
create major problems in the near future as well.

Well if it means more Green MPs, even a few, I'll vote against AV.