h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

As an American who has visited France, (spent two weeks wandering the country in 94), also have spent two separate weeks in the UK, (England and Scotland), my take is that the UK definitely IS jealous of France for many good reasons. But that doesn't mean I don't love the UK. It's like the bright, witty girl in high school whose not particularly good looking being jealous of the gorgeous, but not so witty or personable most popular girl. You both have excellent qualities, but they're just different. The good looking girl is to full of herself to appreciate you, though, while you can certainly appreciate her beauty, hence the jealousy and rivalry on your part and the distain and aloofness of her part to you.

Oh, I love this one, (can't you tell I'm bored, dragging this one up from the bottom of the Ask H2G2 pile...

Just why do the English hate the French, and vis versa?

The English and the French hate each other because they fought each other on/off from the Medieval period until the middle of the 19th century. Nations tend to remember these things. I'm Scottish and many people in this country still loathe the English for reasons going back to William Wallace. The French and Scots were old allies in the past and to this day the Scots don't hate the French and the French don't hate the Scots.

It's all pretty stupid (France and Britain have been allies for nearly 100 years) but what can you do?

I don't hate anyone

Well, except people who spit in the street and people who are rude to waiters, cleaners etc.

Is any of this national emnity stuff really true any more? I think brits pretend to hate the french but generally don't really, aside from cheap gags about garlic and soap. I don't know enough french people to comment on their attitude towards the brits, but I (a brit) have usually found them to be friendly for the 2 weeks that I spend in france every year.

Scots seem to have a massive anti-english chip on their shoulder that is not generally matched by the english and it always surprises me that it is still there.

Isn't it all reduced to the level of jokes about food these days?

k

We had a thread on this topic that still hasn't got back from the abyss. I started it tongue in cheek, but it rapidly got into real vitriol. My only personal gripe about them is the "outrageous accent.

New Zealand and a number of other South Pacific island nations have a resentment of France due to nuclear testing on Mururoa Atoll. Then there was that whole Rainbow Warrior thing and how the finagled the agents we caught back to France with medals.

And they did beat us in final of the last Rugby World Cup.

But why do the Yanks hate the French? They gave the US the Statue of Liberty!

Must have been napping --- wasn't aware that we did. If we do, it's very ungrateful of us, with all the help they were in the Revolutionary War (our name for that old tiff), and in the War of 1812.

SC

It just seems the French are on the receiving end of some particularly barbed remarks in American TV. Usually sitcoms.

Maybe I've misread it and it 's just American sitcom writers that hate France...

You may be on to something there, Mustapha! Hard to tell what TV writers will mistake for reality at times.

SC

Hmmm, some thoughts.

The NORMANS and the French fought for ages and didn't really like each other for reasons of territory (as per usual) and various family feuds. The Normans invaded England and became Kings / Queens thereof. Thus England was dragged into the conflict. The English were wound up to hate the French so they would go fight against them. Then the English really got tee'd off when various monarchs during the various wars managed to lose, or give away, the English lands in France thus strengthening the French. Once we got a french Queen, who rode roughshod over the English Traditions, things didn't exactly get better. Especially things like offering the Scotts Berwick Upon Tweed without asking anyone, or getting the Scots to march on london and telling them anything down south was theres for the plunder.

As for the Scottish / French Auld Alliance, from what I've seen it's a pretty much one-sided thing. The Franch were friendly to the Scotts as they saw it as an easy way to gain a foothold in Britain and thus make conquest of England easier. Scotland reciprocated as they thought of France as a nice friendly big state who would help them in the war against England. I think they might just have been in for a shock had France managed to conquer England.

I think the really odd thing is the number of times that any one of the three COULD have conquered one of the others, had they got their act together. I mean, England owned a huge swathe of what is now France, and were friendly with the Burgundians. Could easily have taken France out of the equation but were to involved in the Wars of the Roses. Scotland could have taken England a few times. France could have taken England several times, I never realised till recently exactly how close to defeat the English were at Agincourt, not exactly the decisive victory it is usually made out to be!

Or at least, thats from my reading of the history books as an amateur.
Any historians from the 11th C through to,well, now?, about who can correct me. The above is what I understand, not my 'beliefs' or anything so don't go getting any kjickers in a twist! I'm trying increase my understanding, ok?

-peace-

Another reason why the English hate the French is something we aren't prepared to admit - we're similar. It was a lot clearer back in the days of the Angevin Empire. Our culture is part French, our language is part French, some people have Anglo-Norman lords for ancestors - we have looked up to them and despised them for a long time.

And of course, they won the American War of Independence, with help from Holland, Spain, Portugal and the colonists

HEY! Until the War of independence was won, there was no USA, nor indeed for a while after. Therefore, by definition, the British Colonists who fought against the British Troops were, in fact, British.

Therefore, WE won the American War of Independance as well!

And we lost it!

Not bad going eh?

Just to add another piece of historical heresay into the already massive melee...
Weren't the Normans who invaded the British Isles in 1066 related to the Danish who had spread down through what is now Germany, and were attacking the English on the Eastern coast at the same time. After all, we only lost to a suckerpunch by the Normans anyway. After beating the Danish at Stamford Bridge, the Saxon army had to travel all the way down to Sussex, collecting anyone they cpould on the way to try and see off William, who claimed to have a right to the throne somehow anyway.

But you'll have to ask Simon Schama about all this, I am really just saying my interpretation of events which are probably a healthy mix between truth and fantasy.

As far as the French go now, I think we have a kind of friendly disregard for eachother. Both nations like to think they are better than the other, and both are in their own ways.
What's that phrase about the English loving their homes and the French their stomachs?

If it comes to that, the Normans and the Danes were descendants of the Vikings, as was the East coast of England and the Highlands and Islands used to be a kingdom under whats-his-face, can't remember his name but it was pretty gruesome!

It's at this point that you realise that all this 'Country X hates Country Y' cos of such and such is so much political baloney. If I had a more cynical mind I'd say it was engineered. (actually, I have, and it is!)

Whilst the Governments might be at war or dislike each other, you'll often find localised sympathises in each camp for the other. Then you get the 'forgotten' atrocities which you'd think would cause a xenophobic hatred and yet today the peoples of those countries consider themselves friends.

Mind you, I also think theres a large element of the 'the enemy of my enemies is my friend' going on here.