h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

People are often scared of what they don't understand. I imagine that so long as you have sufficient common ground, some differences of opinion can actually be beneficial to a friendship. If you can understand why someone has a different point of view & it does not affect the way you need to interact with them, that should be OK too.
However, some people feel threatened by those who are different. Perhaps that is to do with self-condfidence.

pffffft,

Hi Max,

recently I was helping students prepare their course work for examination. I had to tell them that all references to lots of holidaymakers, many jobs in tourist resorts, or most hotels and scuh like should be replaced with relevant figures or more accurate descriptions as these will get higher marks and vagueness is marked down as unreaserched and innaccurate waffle.

That's why I objected to "hang lot of" primarily becuase it is meaningless, hang lot appears to be none so far as the researcher in question has not given a single example

"You insist that she should be accurate at all times, yet you say ""shed loads" (or whatever spurious amount she used)". It would have been easy for you to check what phrase she used"

I insist on no such thing. I request. Please dont present me as a bully Ive already had to explain to ther people that I dont flog, beat or force people either.


"It would have been easy for you to check what phrase she used"

The fact is that given the time constraints at the airport and using an unfamiliar system it was quite hard to check every detail, but despite this you knew what I was talking about. So you got an accurate enough picture even though my information was less than precise.


"Incidentally, I could quite easily mail you a cheque for one year's licence fee, or indeed two or three years', without it making the slightest difference to my life...but I think there are more deserving causes and I certainly don't pay for what should be common courtesy. It's a shame that you could be so easily bought off - is your right to freedom of speech only worth £126.50 to you?

So that's a no then is it

"Perhaps you could ask Donald, who agreed with her, for his reasons for believing that?

A very good idea.


Donald what makes you think that a lot of consensus goes on here because its too easy compared to rocking the boat?


one love

Teaswill: The irony of that is not lost on me, especially as this thread is discussing the pros and cons of saying what you think.
In fact, that is exactly why I posted - I have never before mentioned how irritating and boring and how discourteous to other posters I find the whole trading of insults between Blicky and Apple, and how often I simply leave this site and go elsewhere when I happen across it.
Blackberry Cat had already said "ignoring the usual Apple-Blicky spat" and Teuchter had unsubscribed and I decided to say, for once, what I thought.
HonestIago also asked that they do not bring their dislike for each other onto this thread. Instead of "bombs", would it not make things better if those that feel that way simply spoke up and politely asked for the space to debate in a courteous fashion rather than going along with the herd and ignoring it or leaving? It's a shame that you felt you needed to warn me against expressing my opinion, but thank you for your concern.
Blicky: Thank you for your measured response.
I know why you objected to the phrase - however, it was the tone in which you objected that I found objectionable. And as you yourself say "So you got an accurate enough picture even though my information was less than precise." Asking for more precision can be done politely. After all, Apple was chatting, not writing an exam paper.
I have not "presented you as a bully" - I have highlighted rudeness, as it affects me, and have been careful only to present my opinion. As far as I can recall, I have never had to explain to anyone that I don't flog, beat or force people...I wonder why you have?
You didn't answer my on-topic question: is your right to freedom of speech only worth £126.50 to you?

Point taken. Your first post I thought was apposite, it was the second that seemed to be stirring a little more than was necessary. I shall watch with interest to see how the conversation develops.

heh heh

Personally, being a relative newcomer I know nothing about an Apple/Blicky(?) split (although it sounds painful) all I can see is a thread being derailed by someone posting about people not derailing the thread by having a petty argument and then getting into a petty argument about why they have posted asking for petty arguing to stop.

Fantastic.

*eats popcorn and watches*

I just love soap operas, I wonder how it finishes. I just bet someone announces they are someone elses father or they have kidnapped someones pet or they get out of a shower and remember or something.

So back towards the topic then:

<<< ..in h2g2...If you disagree with a majority view, you can say so,...>>

erm No, not unless you want to end up in a world of hurt! (Regarding som e issues, that is.)>

I think that often depends on whether you make a reasoned argument or an unfounded assertion.

<>

One person's reasoned argument is another's unfounded assertion.

Dumb bomb.

Or how about - reasoned argument is as reasoned argument does.

<<..in h2g2...If you disagree with a majority view, you can say so,...>> (not sure who said this)

<> (Apple/Della)

I often disagree with the majority and somehow don't end up in a 'world of hurt'. When people disagree and debate with me I think about what was posted and prepare a reasoned argument in reply - I don't fly off the handle and complain that I'm being unfairly attacked.

Apple/Della, if you insist on posting your opinions on 'some issues' (and we all know what they are by now) then you must expect rebuttal. The fact that people disagree with you doesn't mean they are 'attacking' you or trying to hurt you - it's simply debate. Why should *you* be able to post whatever you like and not have it challenged? Nobody else on h2g2 gets that sort of special treatment, but somehow you think you should?

This is a debate forum after all, not a public speaker's corner.

Basically, if you are going to post things that upset people (and you *do* know this will happen with many of your views) then tough beans if people argue back. I'm not saying you shouldn't post your opinions, just that you should take responsibility for them and be willing to debate and back them up without taking everything so personally.

az

more pffffft?

Teasswill,

I think what Apple is trying to say is that no matter how well or clearly you set out your arguments, you will always find someone who will say something to the effect of "Your reasons are crap / wrong / lies / bullsh*t and you're full of it".

Still a dumb bomb?

That's a point az...

Pffffft, where's that ?

I bet it turns out Blicky and Apple were married in a past life, and neither one has gotten over the bitter divorce yet.

Then it'll turn out one of the rest of us is their mystery lovechild through surrogate parents on both sides. I hope it's not me

<> (Thatprat)

True, but of course there are many ways of expressing this without resorting to ad hominem (personal) attacks.

Also, a generous smattering of 'I believe', 'I think', 'it seems to me', 'my take is that', etc go a long way in keeping things both less personal and more effective when either rebutting or stating personal opinions. If these are left out then the posting comes across as personal opinion stated as fact.


az

Theres a popcorn smilie ?!? woohoo

I think that there are two age old adages that can be applied to this debate ;

1/ If you notice this notice, you will notice that this notice is not really worth noticing.

and

2/ Opinions are very much like bottoms. Everyone has one. And they all have a hole in them.

Somewhere between the two lies the truth.

All true of course, but I suspect that part of the problem between Blicky and Apple is that they have been taking pot shots at each other so long, neither one is either willing, or particularly able to get themselves out of the trenches they've dug, without the other one saying "See, I was right all along", so the rest of us are stuck with a stroppy teenager and a drama queen for the forseeable future.

<>

Thatprat! (Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if that's true!)

Thatprat - I wouldn't say 'always', but yes sometimes. However, Apple usually doesn't use reasoned argument, or at least has no trustworthy sources of information to reinforce her debate. More often she states opinions as facts without reliable data as back up.

Yes, I stand by my dumb bomb.

<>

All that is simply *your* opinion, Teasswill! That is how you wish to undermine any argument I might ever make - rather snidely clever of you, actually.

You have decided in advance that no source I cite is "reliable"... which enables you to declare any source I ever give, as flawed, and this is all only by your own judgement. Remember what I said about disagreement with the herd resulting in a world of hurt? Thanks for demonstrating so clearly to the uniniated exactly what I meant!

Uninitiated... (momentary lapse of spelling ability.)