h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

OK, so I'm back from a 1st aid refresher.

Today for the first time I heard that you should (I'm in Germany, btw, that makes a difference I think) ALWAYS remove a motorcyclists helmet - even if s/he is conscious and asks you not to.

Any thoughts?

NO!

Well, I've always always been told never to remove it, it can be all that's stopping a broken neck from being fatal.

I could be wrong but that's what my paramedic friend has also confirmed for me!

Thanks. I have a thread about this in my journal too, and she's going to ask around some bikers.

But so far - apart from the people in the room with me today - everyone has said not just "no" but "Hell No!"

It's scary that people might say otherwise. all bikers i know live in fear of someone being 'helpful' and killing them...

found some American sites - one is for motorbiking lawyers as far as I can tell. They all say: do not remove the helmet unless you have to give CPR.

Interestingly they all say (as the trainer said today) to automatically assume neck and spinal injuries. But they also say: they should be on their back if possible.

That goes against every First Aid course I've been on. Unless the strap is actually restricting breathing, I'd say leave well alone. I was taught to do the absolute minimum to stop the patient from dying. A little knowledge is helluva dangerous and there are a lot of stories of well-meaning Good Samaritans making things a lot worse just by trying to help.

Oh yes, I'd second that about the strap.

What about those helmets where the Jaw-bit (sorry, not sure about technical terms) higes up - would anyone move that? In preference to removing the whole helmet?

You would need to open up the hing-ey front thingy to check the airways are clear.

If you can open the front then do so, you want to get air to them etc, it's the support around the neck that you shouldn't remove. Not to mention the torsion etc invlolved in taking off a motorcycle helmet which could exacerbate any injuries.

*shudder*

I've heard stories of damage done in removing helmets and I'd never take the chance... really, your job is to do your best within your skills and knowledge level to keep someone alive. Within this I see no reason to remove a helmet unless they are already not breathing. These situations are all about priorotising and constantly assessing whats necessary rather than what 'might' be a 'good' idea.

What she said, with the big words like "torsion", "exacerbate" and "priorotising"

ah don't get me started on clearing the airways

apparently that's another thing that has changed - in that: we don't do it anymore.

Remind me not to have an accident in Germany.

It's alright SWL, you can get special underwear these days. You should be OK.

RF

*suspicious look at SWL*

Is it in case they try to hold you up and steal all your money?

Or is that banks?

B

Do you think you might have been on a 'comedy' course instead?

I know first aiders aren't doctors, but isn't the first thing to not harm the patient?

If you can't clear an airway, what happens to the ABC of first aid? (prossibly in Germany they have different letters! )

In case of finding a motorbike accident victim on the side of the autobahn, always carry a cucumber. Take of their helmet, shove the cucumber down their throad so as they don't breathe in any of those nasty car fumes.

A peg on the nose is also advisable as those nasty germs in the air might get in that way too.


If their leg is twisted at a funny angle you might want to stand on it firmly. If they scream they're not dead.


Did I miss anything?

we don't have ABC we have AAA which translates to the same thing

but... not checking the airway at that point is a new thing on me (and not a new thing I'm going to take on board, actually)

Absolutely NO not ever, for all the reasons adequately explained.

Novo ( ex biker )