h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

I'm surprised too. I thought it was a currency.

Well, yeah, duh!

az

I've been out of Europe for six months, so I've forgotten a lot about the whole Euro thing.

Did Spain accept it?

Yes, Spain and almost all EU countries have accepted it.

Sorry, Gradient, the 'duh' wasn't meant for you, it was meant for the silly concept that it was some sort of experiment.



az

>> In the past, notably pre-Empire, Britain spent an awful lot of time being deeply involved in Europe. Britain was European. Britain forgot this. <<

Not so much Europe, more just France, except when defending itself. The antagonism between France and Britain, or to be more precise England, goes back to William the Conqueror and doesnt come to an end till in 1914 and WWI. At the battle of Agincourt Henry V had a legitimate claim to the French throne by virtue of his descent from William, Duke of Normandy, a claim that persisted well into the 18th century.

>>I don't know about the UK 'punching below its weight since Agincourt'. I'm not even sure what that means.<<

Punching below your weight means taking on and beating a stronger more powerful adversary. England should have lost the Battle of Agincourt but didn't. They should have lost the Battle of Trafalgar but didn't. They should have lost the Battle of Waterloo but didn't. They should have been defeated by the Spanish Armada but weren't. They should have lost the Battle of britain but didn't. They should be economically weaker than France and Germany but are not.

Donald

Don't worry, Az, I take no offense at 'duh'.

Besides, I'd worked out that the notion of a union-wide currency reform had gone beyond the level of 'experiment'. Unless it's one of those experiments that begins in a lonely pseudoGermanic schloss perched on a mountain in a thunderstorm and involves someone called 'Igor'.

I've still missed a LOT of news about it all, though.

We're SO off topic it's unreal, but how's Spain coping with the Euro?

<>

What???

Its an experiment simply because what the EU are attempting to do has never been done before in the entire history of the World. The only time anything close to it has ever been achieved is with the use of or threat of force.

When you embark and an endeavour when you are not sure of the outcome, that is an experiment.

Another though occurred to me. Gordon Brown's agreement that France and Germany should not be penalised for breaking the Euro rules could be a part of the master plan to encourage Euro members to break the rules, thereby hastening the collapse of the Euro. When that happens, Sterling will be the dominant currency in Europe. How's that for a conspiracy theory?

Donald

The Euro is an experiment:: dont think so
The ducut being in excistence long before the euro peices of eight and all that.Its when the banks got involved and paper money that nessecitated the need for euro.
bring back cash

>> I'd worked out that the notion of a union-wide currency reform had gone beyond the level of 'experiment'. <<

Two years is nothing. Give it ten years and then judge. The current strength of the Euro has more to do with the weakness of the US dollar than any underlying strength.

Donald

"Not so much Europe, more just France"

Really? What about the major seafaring nations like Spain and Portugal? What about Italy? Scandinavia? What about the fact that the English system of Banking comes from..drat, was it Hugenot?...protestants? That trade links with Gaul pre-exist the Roman invasion (the first one, under Julius not the successful one under Claudius)? What about the Jutes, Angles and Saxons?

The Pound is a hangover from the Roman Libre Punda (and you still have a styalised L as the symbol for the currency). Saville Row tailoring comes from European imported tailors, who brought with them styles, techniques and materials that simply didn't exist in Britain prior to their arrival. If Europe wasn't important, why did Elizabeth 1st spend so much time juggling European suitors?

Now this I'm going to have fun with:

"England should have lost the Battle of Agincourt but didn't."

This has an awful lot to do with the French. The French had archers, but put them at the back of the field. They had mercenary Swiss crossbowmen, but the Noble heavy cavalry ran them off the road to the field. The French nobles insisted that a cavalry charge across a muddy field against arrow storm after arrow storm was a good idea.

England didn't win. The French snatched defeat from the jaws of a staggering victory.

"They should have lost the Battle of Trafalgar but didn't."

This one I grant you: a far better Navy.

"They should have lost the Battle of Waterloo but didn't."

That bemused Wellington too. But it had a lot to do with the arrival of the Prussians instead of Napoleon's reinforcements.

"They should have been defeated by the Spanish Armada but weren't."

The Armada was largely defeated by weather. They didn't actually get terribly close to the British Navy. I'm afraid a lot of credit got taken for that when it wasn't deserved.

"They should have lost the Battle of britain but didn't."

Thanks to supplies sent by America and a change of tactics by the Luftwaffe, at the insistence of their command. That was a terribly, terribly narrow squeak.

A LOT of British victories have occurred not because of any inherrant brilliance of the Brits but because of the stupidity of the enemy, or because of luck.

If Henry hadn't spent so long at Harfleur there might have been an actual campaign in France and his troops wouldn't have been so tired, hungry and disease raddled that Henry was forced to make a stand near Agincourt in order to court battle.
If the Armada had waited a week, or gone a week earlier, they'd have give the Royal Navy a very serious headache.
If the Luftwaffe had stuck with attacking Fighter Command instead of starting the bombing campaign against civilian targets, they would have achieved air supremacy in a few more weeks. Yes, this is in part due to the incredible effort and sacrifice of the RAF, who never ever gave up the struggle...but when your opponent gives up, walks away and leaves you too weak to pursue it's not a victory. It's survival.

If Britain punches below its weight, it does so because it's forced to and not because it feels it can. Only a silly person takes on someone stronger and more capable than themselves because they want to. And I'd be interested to see a direct comparison, with current figures, between the UK and Germany's economic state.

shillings ducketts and and florens have all been used as european currency over the years in britain roman coins were widely accepted at one point

"but because of the stupidity of the enemy, or because of luck."
So if the enemy are stupid that makes intelligent, yes?
So clever lucky sods is the best description.

But seriously, I like the way this thread is going. Obviously the heavy involvement of england and the continent were when such things mattered more. The royalty of europe was one extended family and they like to keep their wealth. So not national, but family.

It doesn't matter the reasons, Britain has acheived great things. In no small way it created the modern world through the industrial revolution. So who can blame its citizens for not welcoming a move that is sold to them as one into obscurity?

shillings ducketts and and florens ::Gold and Silver ,the coins being made from them !! then countrys paid their debts in them now promises............. or taxes..........

<>


Sorry Donald, but I cannot speak to anybody when they talk like that.

az

ah the T word th that's what it all boils down to in the end the right to tax your own subjects .people seem to forget we still havea a monarchy thank god

What about the major seafaring nations like Spain and Portugal?

Well actually, Portugal is the only country in Europe the England has never been at war with.

Most of the arguments with Spain where to do with religion. The Catholics trying to impose the Church of Rome onto Protestant England. and if it wasn't that it was control of the Caribbean and South America.

"why did Elizabeth 1st spend so much time juggling European suitors?"

To get the Catholics of her back.

To say all those battles were due to the mistakes of the enemy is true. But that applies to almost any endeavour, he who makes the least mistakes, wins. Britain could just as easy have lost them by making similar mistakes, but didn't.

While Britain may have take the name of its currency from the Romans, the Latin language to be more precise. It didn't adopt the Roman system of Law as most of the rest of Europe did. British Law is based on Old English common law. William the Conqueror allowed that to continue - and Scottish Law is different again.

I don't think Britain got a lot of help form America during the Battle of Britain. A few volunteer pilots and thats about it. After Dunkirk America had Britain written of as a lost cause. It wasn't until after the Battle of Britain that America realised there was some life in the old dog yet and might just be worth a bit of support and even than only thanks to the efforts of one man, Roosevelt. If it had been left to the American Government, Britain would have been left to sink without trace

>> If Britain punches below its weight, it does so because it's forced to and not because it feels it can. <<

Couldn't agree more - and more often that not wins.

Donald

History Azahar, History.

Examples of Britian punching below its weight just to couteract the argument that Britian is a small isigniciant nation that should join Europe lock stock and barrel and be glad of it.

Donald

naTIONALISM is a dangerous concept but so is capitulation tn theres a fine line between working in a community and being drawn into fedralism against your will

Donald,

Have you been drinking?

<>

Um, what's wrong with Britain joining the European community as an equal? Not as something small and insignificant. Really, Britain looks way more puny when it tries to be best buddies with Uncle Sam.

az

The Euro is a political decision to the British people. In addition to that, we seem to be growing faster under the pound than most (if not all?) of those who chose the Euro thank you very much. In a capitalist system; slow growth is imminent collapse.