h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Hello,

Yeah, I thought it was hilarious, but I don't know if other Americans really appreciate the fine art of the witty put-down.

Yours,
Jake

Hello,

Yeah, I thought it was hilarious, but I don't know if other Americans really appreciate the fine art of the witty put-down.

Yours,
Jake

Doh!

No Americans don't seem to do irony that well. You do take us English too literally. When we say, "Its a bit wet out there", it means near monsoon conditions.

It is a bit of a block on communication, but as long as we're all careful it shouldn't be too much of a problem

GreyDesk

Hello,

Yeah, but that's not really irony, more the opposite of hyperbole (I guess, massive understatement). But our humor is more overt rather than subtle. More obsessed with gross-out humor and other sophomoric pranks.

Seriously though, it's true that most Americans don't really understand irony or more sophisticated humor (hence some of the atrocious movie comedies out there). But every time I watch the Simpsons, I feel more hopeful, and I do reflect that Alanis Morisette, author of the "Isn't It Ironic?" song that doesn't really contain any examples of irony in it, is Canadian.

Yours,
Jake

Quote from King of the Hill:
"Now Billy, that's British comedy. It's very subtle."
"That man's wearing a dress..."
"See, it's very subtle."

Hello,

Funnily enough, Slate has an article on why British originals are always better than the American remakes, or as they put it. Their advice to American execs:

1. Don't be afraid of pop culture references (The Simpsons do this, but all other comedies seem afraid of it).
2. Don't stretch out an 8-episode story for 22-episodes.
3. Hire actors that look like real people sometime.
4. Ditch the illusion of a classless society.

This is more talking about adaptations of BBC dramas and comedies, but I thought it was interesting anyway. What has surprised me the most about the negative reaction to the show from some TV Critics is how crude and boorish they get in talking about it. It's funny the stuff Americans will tell themselves to believe. We are not a kind and genteel people, and I don't see how a game show could really change that. Personally, I think we need a show like this to get the really smart people back on the game shows.

Yours,
Jake

The Simpsons and King Of The Hill are two good examples that the US can pull it out of the bag when needed.

UK humour is changing, or rather the things that we laugh at are changing. 15 years ago the back bone of popular jokes were that all Irish people were stupid. Also racist jokes about Indians (or "Pakis" in the then UK vernacular) were popular. All of these have dropped away, and I don't think that this is political correctness. I believe its down to people's perceptions of the world changing.

In the last 15 years Ireland's economy has changed radically and their working class do not move over to the UK in search of manual work. If anything it is the reverse. As for India, the curry is now firmly established as the English natural dish!

GreyDesk

(we do still like our fart jokes though)

*slight simulpost here*

The difference between UK and US television is the economics. The vast majority of your TV is funded purely by advertising, and have to aim their programmes at a "norm" as perceived by their paymasters.

We have the BBC funded through a tax on owning a television set. Plus Channel 4 whose whole remit is to cater for minority tastes, and together can push the boundaries. Almost all of the inventive television comes from these channels.

GreyDesk

*slight simulpost here*

The difference between UK and US television is the economics. The vast majority of your TV is funded purely by advertising, and have to aim their programmes at a "norm" as perceived by their paymasters.

We have the BBC funded through a tax on owning a television set. Plus Channel 4 whose whole remit is to cater for minority tastes, and together can push the boundaries. Almost all of the inventive television comes from these channels.

GreyDesk

double post

WRT to The Simpsons, do Americans actually "get it"?

I mean by this it obviously has a base level humour that children and others without huge intelligences can find amusing, but under that it is a hugely damning commentary on USA life, and it is for this reason I watch it.

ChawkE

I'm sure there must be a large group of people with the same mentallity as the writers of the Simpsons, so the answer must be yes.
We, like the execs who decide what goes on TV, are running the risk of making national generalisations.

Mr Cogito,
Back to post 25 you said "the "Isn't It Ironic?" song doesn't really contain any examples of irony in it".

What then are examples of irony?

I would have thought living for 98 years, finally winning the lottery and then dying the next day is pretty so. Or having 10,000 pieces cutlery but not the one type you want is pretty so. Or waiting your whole life to go on an aeroplane because you're scared of flying and then it crashing is pretty so. (That is in fact one of my favourite song lyrics because of the cleverness of its wording ).

Then again maybe irony is better defined by Nicholas Cage in ConAir when they were listening to Lynard Skynard's "Sweet Home Alabama" as the plane is about to crash. As he points out pretty ironic to be in a plane about to crash listening to music by a band whose members died in a plane crash.

Which is it to be?

BBS

Hello,

Well to be technically pedantic, I did a little definition looking. Turns out I was being a bit harsh, because the "slightly wet" term could fall under def 2a: "the use of words to express something other than and especially the opposite of the literal meaning b : a usually humorous or sardonic literary style or form characterized by irony c : an ironic expression or utterance"

I was thinking more along the lines of 3: "3a (1) : incongruity between the actual result of a sequence of events and the normal or expected result". The classic example of this is of course the king fulfilling the prophecy in Oedipus Rex that leads to his death and Oedipus hunting for the killer only to realize it's him. I guess in modern usage, irony's become a little less strict, to the point that Alanis Morisette sings about rain on a wedding day as being ironic (it's really just unfortunate), but I guess the whole plane crash thing might be ironic. It just seems that sometimes we lump in hyperbole, bad luck, self-deprecating humor, and other things under irony. So I guess it's ironic that I'm not entirely correct about irony.

In regards to the Simpsons, I think actually many Americans get the jokes on the Simpsons at some level. We have a lot of very popular satirists in this country (most of whom happen to be Canadian) and there is definite humor to be mined in how absurd this country gets sometimes. I personally think the Simpson work so well, because they operate on several different levels:

1. The basic pratfalls for the kids.
2. More sophisticated verbal jokes for adults.
3. References to popular culture and movies.
4. Satire of American institutions and culture.
5. References to more obscure things, other Simpsons episodes.

But I'm rambling in a rather long-winded way. What else is new?

Yours,
Jake

Anyone done a list of all the parodies of films & TV to appear in the Simpsons?

Of course the classic source of parody/satire/nicked from another film is The Wizard of Oz. Anyone got a list of them?

BBS

Hello,

The website for the alt.tv.simpsons newgroup ([URL removed by moderator]) seems to do a very good job of unravelling all the references and trivia. Frankly, it's a bit scary how serious they are about it.

Yours,
Jake

Have I Got News For You wouldnt be the same without Angus Hardly Ever Laughs Deayton and Paul Dumbass Merton! send them over for the us version!

you think we'd let them go that easily?
(though the treasure of that bunch is IMHO Ian Hislop)

the paul merton shows funny

great name! yes. yes i like it, too