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Disturbing Indifference or Maybe Not

Post 1

Hypatia




One thing I’ve always tried to cultivate in myself is honest self-reflection. This sometimes leads to disturbing conclusions. Case in point, I appear to have reached an emotional plateau where I am relatively unaffected by the things happening around me. Things don’t touch me anymore. The most recent example of this is my brother-in-law’s suicide a few weeks ago. I am intellectually annoyed with him for doing that to his children and grandchildren, but I haven’t really “felt” much of anything.

This isn’t something that has appeared out of nowhere. Bottling up emotions is just part of my nature. It’s the way I cope. I’ve never been a crier or a shouter. When my dad developed Alzheimer’s and we had to watch him slide into that shadow world, that natural tendency became exaggerated. When he died I was surprised that I felt so little. I had always adored him. Then after F became terminal, I shut down completely. The past became irrelevant and the future too uncertain to deal with. I just focused on getting from one day to the next. When he died my main emotion was relief that it was finally over with. At first I felt guilt over not being as upset as I should have been, but that soon faded, too.

It was the same thing when my sister died. I was surprised that I wasn’t more upset. We had a good relationship. I should have felt it more deeply. Then there’s my gentleman friend, Syn. I’m perfectly contented when we’re together. We spend three or four nights a week together. But I’m fine when we’re not together, too.

So the question I have to ask myself is whether this indifference (or detachment, if you prefer) is a good thing or a bad thing. I used to envy that dual state of mindfulness and detachment Buddhists strive to achieve and actively sought it for a time. I’m fairly content with my life. I’m not blissfully happy, nor am I unhappy. I’m far less judgmental than in my youth, have found myself on a middle path considering things political and spiritual. I no longer passionately believe or disbelieve, love or hate. I genuinely like people, have lots of friends whom I genuinely care about, a lover who seemingly is in it for the long haul, function well in work and social situations. But it doesn’t really touch me the way it should. Sometimes it’s like I’m functioning on two levels at once. Does that make sense? If it all disappeared tomorrow, I’d be fine. I feel a remarkable inner strength and peace that I’m certain will get me through. I’ve learned that on a personal level, all I have to manage is today.

So, is it possible that I’ve finally reached a desirable detachment and ability to live in the moment, or is there a serious flaw in my character? Is my lack of grief, for example, a sign that I’m a cold-hearted bitch or am I on the road to enlightenment? I really can’t decide which it is. Must add ambivalence to my Hyp’s gone round the bend list.




Disturbing Indifference or Maybe Not

Post 2

Dmitri Gheorgheni, Post Editor



smiley - hug You know what happens when too much electricity goes through a circuit?

It gets fried.

I think you've got fried circuits. I am the last person to suggest the serenity prayer. I hate smug solutions.

You are a kind person. All the things you describe are things we can't change.

I think most people get angry when bad things happen. If you don't, you usually become sad. The sadness can hurt, but the anger can kill.

Give yourself some space. You don't judge others - don't judge yourself.


Disturbing Indifference or Maybe Not

Post 3

aka Bel - A87832164

Nobody should really tell us how we *are* to feel. Each person is dig´fferent, everybody has their own way to cope with things.
Be at peace with yourself. You're doing nothing wrong. You're feeling and acting the way that is best for you. That's fine. You don't harm anybody, so nobody should harm you. No need to feel guilty. We don't choose emotions, they 'attack' us - or not. smiley - zen


Disturbing Indifference or Maybe Not

Post 4

Hypatia

Thanks guys. smiley - hug It's so much harder not to judge ourselves than our friends. I'll try not to worry about all this, but it won't be easy.


Disturbing Indifference or Maybe Not

Post 5

Baron Grim

I must say I don't think it is a good thing to feel bad about not feeling bad. Just sayin'.


Disturbing Indifference or Maybe Not

Post 6

Vip

Although I've never lost anyone close to me, I will say that after long illnessess I believe relief to be a normal part of the process. You've had to deal with so much stress, anger, worry and grief along the way that, much as it's sad, it's also released you from a heavy burden. When my grandfather-in-law passed away I noticed that self-same reaction from the people that had been involved.

On a personal note, I don't miss people I don't see or interact with. People find it bizarre that I don't see my parents for months at a time, or talk to them for weeks at a stretch. I have to set calender entries for family and friend birthdays otherwise I plain forget. People who used to be important to me a few years ago barely register to me at all. I often wonder if I don't take life seriously enough - most people just don't impact me at all.

I'm kind when people are around me, and react when they need me. I just hope that's enough. I think you and I might be in the same boat. In any rate, you have always come across as warm and caring to me, without fail. That's one of the reasons I like you so much. smiley - smiley

smiley - fairy


Disturbing Indifference or Maybe Not

Post 7

Hypatia

The thing is, if 100 people react one way and person 101 reacts differently, #101 is going to wonder why. I agree that we are who we are, for good or bad. And my lack of strong emotion will probably help me live longer and be more content with my life. So I guess it's a good thing whether it's caused by some sort of psychological flaw or not.


Disturbing Indifference or Maybe Not

Post 8

Hypatia

Actually Vip, I've noticed that we are quite a lot alike. Sorry about that. smiley - silly


Disturbing Indifference or Maybe Not

Post 9

Vip

How do you know that you're #101? I'd say it's more likely that many people share your thoughts, but they're very hard to express so you don't realise you're not alone. smiley - cheerup

smiley - fairy


Disturbing Indifference or Maybe Not

Post 10

Vip

And another smiley - simpost there. smiley - smiley


Disturbing Indifference or Maybe Not

Post 11

Hypatia

You know, I've wondered if people who display a lot of emotion, especially publically, do so because they really feel it or because they think they should?


Disturbing Indifference or Maybe Not

Post 12

aka Bel - A87832164

Some because they feel it, others because they think they should, yet others because they need the attention they'll get. I like to keep very personal things to myself, or only share them with a few people close to me. I don't think I would write a journal if, say, my dad passed away. Maybe I would. I hope it will be years still before I find out.
I'm like VIp, though, I don't get to see my parenty very often, and as they live so far away, they just don't play any major role in my life. That doesn't mean that I don't love them. It just means they're under my radar for most of the time (same with my brother).


Disturbing Indifference or Maybe Not

Post 13

Asteroid Lil - Offstage Presence

I remember being taken aback when I returned to the US from 15 years living in England, by the way everyone hugged each other or shouted "I'll pray for ya!" or shared their intimate feelings about life after five minutes' acquaintance. You are perhaps more reserved than the American norm. So am I. That's not a pathology, that's a cultural tangent!


Disturbing Indifference or Maybe Not

Post 14

Websailor

Hyp, I spent a fair amount of time with you at the Birmingham Mini-Meet this time last year, and I found you very sympatico. I am a few years older than you, with typical British reserve, and I think part of it is that we are getting older. We have seen much, and realised perhaps that beating ourselves up and wailing about things we can't change is a waste of energy and achieves nothing.

I have always coped by getting on with things, and recently we have lost quite a few friends from old age and illness, and I too have found myself wondering why it doesn't affect me as it did once. Perhaps I have realised that we all have to stand on our own two feet and not depend on those around us who may depart early.

Relief that their suffering is over, and that of their families, is a big part of that, and when you lose someone to dementia of any kind, you have usually effectively lost them many years before. Often the grief is for our loss, not the passing of a loved one who may be better off out of it.

I also wonder about the overflowing of grief, and flowers and toys etc. that appear after every tragedy - some call it the 'Diana effect' over here - and I wonder whether it is a good thing. I don't think emotions should be bottled up but neither should they be paraded for public consumption.

I think you are perfectly normal and rational, and experienced at handling the slings and arrows that fortune throws our way.

smiley - peacedovesmiley - hug

Websailor smiley - dragon


Disturbing Indifference or Maybe Not

Post 15

Montana Redhead (now with letters)

If you were.a mean, unfeeling b*tch then this would be an issue. But you're a compassionate, giving human being and I think that your 'lack' is means of self-protection. You have a life to live and you don't have time to crawl under a rock. It's a good thing!


Disturbing Indifference or Maybe Not

Post 16

There is only one thing worse than being Gosho, and that is not being Gosho

It sounds to me, Hyp, that you've reached a level of contentment and detachment which, if a lot more people achieved, would make the world a much better place but which western society, and American society in particular, seems to frown upon or aggressively discourage. I think it's something to be very proud of and I wouldn't do anything about changing it. Leastways, I wouldn't if you truly have reached that Buddhist state of detachment rather than simply bottling up and shutting off several emotions, because those will eventually surface, often destructively.

It's very possible to be kind and compassionate without becoming emotionally attached, or emotionally distressed when someone dies, but that kind of detachment is looked upon by society as hard and unfeeling. Even psychology seems to refuse to believe that a human being can be that detached without psychological consequences and without it being some kind of defensive posture.

Unfortunately I work with a bunch of people who are the polar opposite of what you describe, either because they're very young or because they're wrapped up in popular culture and Hollywood. It's frustrating, and it makes me cherish my two days off each week more than I ever used to, because I don't have to be around all that noise and pointless expenditure of energy. I'll often just not leave the apartment all day long, and most of the day I won't even have any radio or music playing. It's very peaceful here smiley - zen

Don't fret about it Hyp, it all sounds perfectly natural to me.


Disturbing Indifference or Maybe Not

Post 17

AlsoRan80

My so dear Hypatia,

Welcome to the Happy age - old age which it is called but which really should be called the HAPPY age.

We have done it all - we no longer yearn, or weep or feel emotionally drained when draMatuc events occur..........

Que sera, sera was a melody that we Used to dance to when I was young.

The letters you have received are fascinating. Some of them give a great deal of hope - some are sad. However we should always thank the powers that be for every blessing we receive even if it does not appear to be a blessing at the time.

Very dear friends, my HAPPY AGE occurred when I turned 80 Up till then it was practically always a "fight to the finish" with whatever I said or did. !!

Some of us reach SERENITY earlier and I think that our dear Hypatia is so fortunate in having reached it - a life well lived and well spent my very dear friend and REFLECTION is so satisfying. !!

With a great deaL of affection to you all

Christiane, the happy nearly eighty-two year old.

LOADS AND LOADS OF
smiley - lovesmiley - lovesmiley - lovesmiley - lovesmiley - lovesmiley - lovesmiley - lovesmiley - love X 10+ smiley - lovesmiley - love

There is going to be a oarty......pheloxi arranged my 75th birthday virtual party..........





Disturbing Indifference or Maybe Not

Post 18

Hypatia

Thanks for the replies, everyone. I am feeling quite smiley - zen about the whole thing now. Websailor, I'm relieved to know you've experienced something similar.

Christiane,I'm glad it isn't taking me as long as it took you.You must be feistier than I am. smiley - silly But I'm very relieved that you've reached a place of contentment.

In all seriousness, I'm glad I started this journal. It has prompted me to evaluate the situation more positively. And if this is a normal part of ageing, then it is definitely a good thing. Reduced angst and stress in general has to be good for our health.

You guys are always so sensible. It's great to have friends like you. smiley - cheers


Disturbing Indifference or Maybe Not

Post 19

cactuscafe



dearest Hyp luvvy ...smiley - kiss ..

what??? re your first paragraph .. re the suicide word .. brother-in-law??? what?? ohmigod ... smiley - wah ...

I need a coffee smiley - coffee .. with you ...

s'cuse me ... just run around in circles for a while .. punch the sky .. .. write fifteen uncertain rhymes and attempt to traverse a psychedelic dreamscape ...dressed in black silk .. with monkeyman imaginary spirit guide talking weird in my left ear .. chase a demon ... chase a ghost ... whisper to Eternity in mirror writing and .....

... then get to the point ... smiley - rofl ...

I just read your heartfelt and honest and amazing posting and all the heartfelt and honest and amazing postings of your friends ... I am .. as ever .. somehow awakened by your honest reflections .... and your ability to communicate those reflections ... which then inspires your friends to respond ....

what can I say .. smiley - rofl .. think I'll just say hey ... and maybe yay ...and smiley - kiss ..and add my own echo ... and I guess ...as the others have said ... we all have our way and maybe our own maps and interpretations of the ...and our own inner wellsprings ...and ways of coping ..

smiley - biro

I knew this yoga teacher .. she used to say to me yoga or Prozak .. .. smiley - rofl .. I used to say ... smiley - rofl ..

and I too find that ... from my ageing yet hopeful experience .. smiley - rofl .. a curious freedom does seem to arise from my accepting ... and sharing ... and communicating .. my own way .. despite the hassles and sometimes even persecution ...

smiley - rofl

...as one who has felt too much ....way too may highs and lows ...and has got into ludicrous situations as a result .. smiley - rofl .. destroyed by the world .. inspired by the world .. turned inside out by grief .. turned inside out by love .. turned inside out by beauty and glory and horror ... I also .. as you know ..attempt to dance with that detachment .. that dynamic energy ..that .. that fountain .. that wellspring ..

...and I do find it to be dynamic because it is somehow illogical yet logical .... in and of the world and yet not in and of the world at all .. smiley - zen all at the same time ... and so full of paradox ...

know what I mean? hmm

smiley - huh .. smiley - roflsmiley - choc

ah yeh .. whoever said that the Middle Way Cafe is a boring place to be .. I love it ... like total zen smiley - zen yeah! ...

smiley - coffeesmiley - coffeesmiley - coffee ..... hmm .. smiley - rofl ...

and you're alright wiv me luv ....smiley - smoochsmiley - smoochsmiley - kiss ... live your lovely Hypness ....

and take care dearest smiley - kisssmiley - kiss ... haven't said hullo to you for ages .. been far and away .. dealing with various worlds ... smiley - rofl ..


H smiley - smooch

smiley - rofl









Disturbing Indifference or Maybe Not

Post 20

Dmitri Gheorgheni, Post Editor

I think our cactuscafe is right about the yoga-or-Prozac option. Half a pound bag of M&Ms will do the same as Prozac, and the side effects are milder, mostly involving exercise to get rid of the excess calories...smiley - winkeye

Yoga, on the other hand, is fun, but might give you a charley-horse the size of the brain cramp you get from reading that last post...smiley - zen

I mock unfairly, being in the presence of wisdom and art. Please forgive.smiley - grovel

smiley - hugsmiley - hug to both of you.


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