h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

I am subscribed to a mailing list through WebMD on diet and nutrition. This article found its way to my inbox yesterday evening.

http://www.webmd.com/content/article/122/114699.htm

There are a couple of interesting points in it that I find disturbing. We all know that naturally thin people often consider obese people as lazy out of control gluttons who could easily lose weight if they had any self-control. The scary thing is that this bias against obese people is so entrenched in society that respondents of the survey featured in the article would rather give up years of their lives, having children, even eyesight in some cases than to be fat.

There is also a statement toward the end of the article that is telling. "It's simply not possible, Downey says, for obese people to become thin people. What is possible is for obese people to become healthy people."

I'm not sure I agree that it is impossible. Some people have accomplished it with a great deal of effort and
self-denial at least short-term. I do agree that it is much more difficult than thin people seem to realize and so difficult for people in certain circumstances as to be nearly impossible.

So, are we focusing on the wrong thing as the article suggests?
Many reducing diets are very unhealthy. Should we throw out our scales and instead concentrate on general overall health instead? Concentrate on cholesterol levels, blood pressure, diabetes, getting adequate exercise, etc. instead of a number on a scale? And instead of blaming the fat people for this problem, how about working as a society to give people the skills to make better choices and to actually make healthy choices available?

And isn't it time that obese people stop internalizing the message and beating up on themselves which causes even more problems? About time to tell people to f off, if you ask me.

Yes!

To your questions, without having read the article.

If I may stray?



I think we all have prejudices, bias, when it comes to what people look like (if you are a predominantly seeing person that is).

Right from the birth and throughout life we learn the shapes, colours and body languages of normal, good, equal-minded, bad, dangerous etc. - to each their own 'normal' etc. depending on the family and friends close to them, their experiences especially in childhood and youth with different looking people. But the 'normal' is also enhanced and/or altered or defined by public images - be they newspapers, magazines, films etc. To the extent: one-size-(must)-fit-all.

Communcating via the internet or in any other kind of writing is often void of bias like that. Luckily, I'd say. I've come to like, treasure, befriend and even more via mail, chat or conversations - here, there and everywhere . A couple of handfuls of people I've met in real life and more I've seen photos of. Only very few of them would I have met otherwise - some from obvious reasons like distance - some because we don't move in the same circles and - important here - some because they didn't look like someone, with whom I would have something in common. I wouldn't have contacted them - and I dare say the same from their point of view.

The first time I met with a dozen people from a chatroom I frequented, none of them looked like I'd imagined. Later that day I met with old neighbours and friends - and then it striked (stroke?) me: I had put faces and characteristics from people I knew and inside were alike to the unseen chatters onto each chatter. That is why I expected my new friends to look different. Does that make sense?

To me at least, the impressions I get from conversations with people make a greater impact than the looks, seen afterwards. Or rather the looks then become beautiful and endearing because the person is.

- and then it striked (stroke?) me:

That would be 'struck'.

Back on topic, I questions those percentages assigned to the alternative choices. Supposedly 25% of people would give up bearing children to be thin. What percentage of people in the general population desire to be childless by choice? How does this affect that statistic? And I think it is easier for a lean or normal person to say they are willing to give something up than for an obese person, who most likely has already unsuccessfully tried giving up many things in an effort to attain this goal.

It isn't just appearance that can become a nonfactor on websites like this one. I have good friends online who are teenagers, for example. That probably wouldn't have happened in real life. And unless someone makes a point of bringing it up, we can all chat without reference to nationality, race, religion, etc.

And you're right, tartaronne. When I finally met some people who are friends on h2g2, it didn't matter to me what they looked like and I hope it didn't matter to them what I looked like. Because they were already friends. It's a shame it doesn't work like that other places.

Who cares if hair is long or short
or sprayed or partly grayed...
WE KNOW THAT HAIR AIN'T WHERE IT'S AT

(there will come a time when you won't
even be ashamed if you are fat!)

WAH WAH-WAH WAH

-Frank Zappa

Witty, I think what most chronically obese people lack is self-confidence rather than self-control. When you are told that you're ugly and disgusting and lazy and weak and whatever other words are used to describe heavy people, you start to believe it. So I think that the most important thing we give up by buying into society's opinion of us is self-respect. Andn when that happens, it makes the struggle with the weight even more difficult.

In desperation to lose weight I think that we often try extereme methods that result in us being less healthy than before. Some people can lose weight on 1500 calories a day. Some people gain weight on 1500 calories a day. Asking someone to go into a starvation mode of 800 calories, for example, is unreasonable if you ask me. Especially when the doctor who is recommending it to his patient can and does eat 3000 calories a day.

The great myth is that fat people eat a lot more food than thin people. It just isn't true. I bet we eat less food on a regular basis than thin people because for one thing we are conscious of everything that goes into our mouths.

Hi Phred, you tall thin person, you.

Good old Frank Zappa. Isn't he the one who named his kid Dweezle or something like that?

Zappa named his boy Dweezle and his daughter Moon Unit.

I agree, Hyp, it's hard to maintain self-respect when society is telling you that you don't measure up to their standards. It becomes a vicious circle.

Don't mean to hijack your conversation with Zappa trivia. Pity so many people have so much trouble with weight...especially the emotional aspects...it was easier to be tall and thin when I was young and flush with testosterone...it gets harder as one gets older...

Obesity is viewed as a moral weakness. It's difficult because there are some things we don't 'have' to do. We don't have to drink alcohol or smoke or take cocaine or have sex to survive. But we do have to eat.

Yes, I believe it is much easier to give something up completely rather than to control consumption.

Don't worry about the Zappa trivia, Phred. Dweezil and Moon Unit are often the topic of conversation in my house. My teenagers think those names are hilarious.

I wanted to name my son Isadore so I could call him Izzy, but sounder minds prevailed and he is just Ken.

They are hilarious names. I can't imagine doing that to a child.

Here's what I meant about making healthy choices available to people. Where I live there aren't any sidewalks in most of the residential neighborhoods, yet we are always told to walk more. Kids who live more than a few blocks from school are collected in school buses for this reason - it's too dangerous to walk or ride bikes to school.

The city swimming pool was closed ages ago. So the only way kids can swim for exercise is at the pool at the high school. This same pool is open to adults about 3 hours a week. Besides, who wants to swim indoors in water the temperature of bath water? Not me.

The schools all have vending machines with pop and chips and candy - all poor choices nutritionally.

4 years of PE used to be a requirement in high school - now it is an elective. Organized team sports are big here, but what about the kids who aren't naturally athletic and aren't on any of the teams?

See, I am one of those ridiculous teenagers: I eat as much or as little as I like and I remain 54 kilos.

This does have major implications: as you say, a lot of the time I can't see why other people can't be as thin as me.

Plus I can't buy clothes. I'm 18, and as I sit here, I'm wearing shorts, labelled age 12-13. I got them only today. 26" waist is a big downside. I promise I tried to gain weight. That's where the last 4 kilos came from.

I'm not sure whether it's a good thing, or i should about it.

NH, you sound like my younger stepson. He was painfully thin. He ate enough for three hard working men and could never put on weight. Now that he is older he has changed somewhat and is of normal weight. But he will never be heavy. We all have individual metabolisms, I guess.

I never had the 'greek god' body image, even in my physical prime, so it's out of the question for me to even entertain the prospect now...
I'll just settle for being vaguely close to 'average' weight at this point.

If the attractive human quality, the 'sweetness' if you please, has any correlation to body image, I would say it tends to absent itself from the people who drive themselves to look like perfect specimens.

I think they generate the disdain for the overweight simply because the overweight see no compelling need to play the 'perfect specimen' game.

[You may ignore the following if you're not interested in hearing about yet another 'diet'.]

Let me approach this as a person of low metabolism and moderate exercise, prone to overweight *if I follow the national mealtime schema*.

We have a paradigm that we should eat three square meals a day at a set schedule, and the day's structure in society is centered on that premise.

I note that in Europe, the proverbial hearty American breakfast, ("so important to start your day"), is generally absent within urban society. A substantial breakfast is indeed appropriate for growing children and people who consistently work up a sweat for their pay, but excessive for adults who do not rely largely on their bodies' physical capabilities to get the job done.

I have always hated stuffing my gut within two or three hours of awakening.

I like my coffee sweetened, sugar or honey, and generally limit myself to 3 or 4 cups a day. Otherwise I drink unsweetened green tea and water. Very important, water, to maintain a good level of hydration.

I generally shun snacks of any variety, and avoid sodas completely. I might consume a twelve-pack of beer in a week's time, but not often.

Very austere so far, but if I indulge in three squares on a daily basis, I gain weight.

So, I'm doing well with two double-handful portions of solid real food per day, one at a time, nineish in the morning and sevenish in the evening. (I've been prone to suffer from nocturnal acid reflux, but not eating within three hours of bedtime has "cured" this.)

An increase in exercise coupled with an increase in water intake will reduce the stored-fat layer. Works like magic.

I don't drink enough water. But I get busy and honestly forget. I know that must sound weird. I'm always griping at my mom to drink more water but I don't drink enough myself.

And I am definitely underexercised.

I am not able to exercise vigorously at this point. In fact, I hurt my knee about three weeks ago and must be extremely cautious with it. I love to walk--just can't right now.
We have company coming Wednesday. These people "mall walk" at least two miles a day. Do you think I will be able to keep up with them? I'm not going to worry about it. I shall stumble along at my own rate.

In reference to my own physique I coined the term 'lean and rangy' over what others, including my wife, called skinny. I couldn't gain weight no matter how hard I tried and believe me, I tried. Why, I didn't break the hundred pound mark till about age 16! The more I ate, the less I weighed. That too can be as stigmatic as being considered overweight.

These days I eat one meal per day every day. If I want breakfast then I make it, only I do it at 7pm. It's not a matter of choice the body type we're born with, it's what we do with it that counts.

For the record, I never ever drink water that hasn't been properly filtered...I find a rich, dark French roast to be just about perfect for removing any impurities