h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

A question - if climate change drastically alters the landscape, which would you rather be doing:
- carrying your few remaining possessions on your back to higher ground?
- watching it on TV from your yacht?

climate change is natrual only human beings speed it up, but we are natural too was it not meant to be?

secondly you choices are too ancient (the first choice) against modernism. something like "Moses getting the Ten Commandment" vs "Bill Gates' money"

Hi Member ,

I see that you are trying for the Hoovooloo prize for winding up the greatest number of people in the shortest time. Excellent, keep it up.

One or two minor niggles. "Tree-hugging doo-gooders"? Puh-lease, can't you do better than that in your sweeping generalisations? And I suggest that before you quote Churchill you read all his works. He also said that it only took a few, highly-motivated individuals to change the world.

For example; the 9-11 hijackers; Greenpeace's Save the Whales campaign in the 70's; the Vegetarian Society and HRDA's long, careful campaign that has increased the number of veggies in Britian alone from 0.5% to 22% of the population in under 20 years; the Directors at Iceland Foods who singlehandedly undermined the whole pro-GM argument; I could go on ad infinitum.

As a member of the Alternative Technology Association we have successfully changed the government's priorities regarding alternative energy sources by researching, experimenting and proving that they are viable. We have worked with Energy Companies and Sony and Toyota, all of whom are now pouring millions into work that ten years ago only our measly subscriptions supported.

You call people like us naieve, we call you apathetic, and too easily convinced that you can do nothing, so you will do nothing.

And don't spend the next few posts picking my examples to bits. Try considering what you could do to change things, and why you should, rather than settling back into your leather armchair to watch millions starve on TV while you guzzle beer and fill your face with produce stolen from them.

Greed or need?
You decide, meanwhile I have more important things to do.

Blessings,
Matholwch /|\.
Busy changing his world.

Well, I am not a hopeless optimist and I don't believe it is possible to make life better for everyone. But I do believe that we can at least try and make life better for some, those who touch our lives, be they family, friends or occasional strangers who need our help. And we can often do this by offering our time and caring, which all of us should have to spare.

I won't eat veal or buy Nikes (to give just two examples) and I have no illusions that I am in any way helping to stop the massive machinery that keeps immoral businesses like these in operation. It just feels right for me not to do these things, so I don't.

We may well all being going to hell in a handcart, and not for the reasons that Justin is so fond of proclaiming, but there *is* always hope. As just one individual out of billions I know that my actions cannot help to 'change the world' on any sort of large scale, and I accept those limitations. But I know that I can and do make a difference in some people's lives. And so I keep making an effort to help people when I can. Because if everyone did just a little I think this would make a difference on a large scale.

You see, people *will* remember a kind word or action and this often will make them think twice when someone else needs their help. A bit of a ripple effect of kindness. Of course I need to take care of myself first, with proper food, shelter and clothing, though I am not all that materialistic. In fact, often I am not doing so well on these basic needs because I have never put 'making a buck' ahead of other things that are more important to me. But that's my problem. My needs are not that great, my wants are seldom realized, but I am still able to give to others when I can.

Member, you seem to think of yourself as a realist, but my take is that you are very cynical and quite pessimistic about the world in general. And especially about the people who inhabit the earth. I think that is too bad for you. Do you ever feel compassion for others?

I also have a comfortable bed in a nice flat. At least, it is comfortable and nice enough for me. But when I get into my warm bed (and have cats pile on top of me) I feel quite thankful for all that I have. And I do worry about others I know who don't have a warm bed. I cannot worry about everyone in the world. I cannot help to change everyone's lives. But I can and do try to do my bit with the people I know.

Oops, bit of a ramble there.

az

'...chattering classes...'

Isn't that the term coined in a recent article in 'The Times' or somesuch broadsheet?

Anyway, Memloo...

'The ONLY way to make your life better, is to make someone else's WORSE. This is the central truth of the modern world'

What nonsense. Have you never heard of love, or couples, or marriage, or even plain casual sex?

In case you haven't, let me explain these concepts. They are phenomena whereby two people get together and make each other's lives better, without making anyone else's lives worse. I can also add friendship, a most unusual bond which is formed between individuals without worsening anyone, and generally to the betterment of those involved.

When you say 'make your life better,' do you mean 'increase your assets?' And by 'make someone else's worse,' do you mean 'take them from someone else?' Because that is the only case I can think of where your 'central truth' is actually a universal truth. If that's your definition of happiness, you're no realist and you certainly know a lot less about human nature than blicky, whom you so harshly deride. Or do you suspect that the rich and famous seldom sink into depression, while the poor and simple can scarcely maintain happiness?

As the situation with the NHS has shown us, we can't solve problems simply by throwing money at them, and we stand a far greater chance of solving them if we approach them with intelligence, determination and dedication.

I'll give you a little truth of my own: happy are those who solve their problems.

- Jordan

all this long text is boring the HELL out of me


unsubscrbies

Bye!

- Jordan (was that too long?)

"In the real world, there are finite resources. The ONLY way to make your life better, is to make someone else's WORSE.

Now your starting to sound like Justin, thank you so much for telling us that yours is the only way that makes sense."

No, this is not comparable with Justin's rantings, because mine are based on observable facts about the world we share, not voices in my head. You can test my observations if you like.

I am well aware that if I am selfish and maximise my gains I will accrue certain material advantages ove others, my point was that that is NOT THE ONLY WAY to improve the world or even the bits of it that are my immediate environs. What You are trying to tell us is that IS THE ONLY WAY.

Why not try reading what you post?


I have read a little about Churchill, yes he did serve as a Liberal MP and was part of a coalition goverment during the second world war, but he started out a Tory and MP and when back to them after being a Liberal MP. In my opinion, the opinion of most Tories and supporters of other parties he epitomised Tory values and is still held up by Tories of as their greatest leader. He makes Thatcher look like a hippy.


And why do you think it was remembered? It's not particularly funny, or witty. It is a memorable quotation because it is RIGHT, or at least because anyone who hears it recognises the ring of truth in it.

Its right because it has stood the test of time and it has stood the test of time because its right. Do you have any idea how close to Justins brand of logic your little bit of circular reasoning is? Atleast Justin has the voices in his head to back up his assertions tha Churchill was right. What have you got?

The Tory party a bigger and more craven bunch of hypocrites it is hard to find. Like you they trumpet the opinons of Churchill yet went to war with Sadam because he was gasing Kurds. Now I know someone else who thought it was a good idea to gas Kurds because they were "uncivilised". Here's a couple of clues: fat bloke, smoked cigars, went about talking rubbish, some people think he's great because "he" won a war. Can you tell who it is yet?


Oh sure, in some abstract way "the world" is the worse for my actions, but the point is - I don't see it. It simply doesn't touch me....And you know what? I can ignore you. And it doesn't make the slightest bit of difference.

Ask the people in Norfolk and along the banks of the River severn how they feel about the "abstract" floods that they are increasingly becoming subject ot. Maybe you should tell them that if they ignore all the tree huggers' none sense about global warming the flood waters wont "make the slightest bit of difference"



you're absolutely no different than Justin, comforting himself with the delusion that all the people in the world who are having a better time than him are going to pay one day. The news is - we're not.

I should change the channel or get a different newspaper mate. The news is we all already are paying the price of some peoples greed. The main difference between me and Justin is that I dont think we have any place else to go and you and I are in this together, we will all share the same fate.


"Where treatable diseases become economy threatening epidemics because those who have the choice refuse to pay for treatment because it will fractionally reduce their profit margins."

Won't affect this country, or any country we trade equally with. So far it's affecting only countries which are already massive sink holes of capital anyway, and in which attempts over decades to set up infrastructure are consistently frustrated by corruption among the locals. Boo hoo.

The short term efects of enclosed air conditoning sytems, intensive farming, GM foods, increased use of cheap synthetic substitutes for natural products is increased profits. Great news if you want to be rich.

Bad news if you work in an office or fly on planes that create excellent conditions for the mutation and transportation of disease.
(What did SARS do to the asian economy)
Bad news if you have CJD or live in an area that has lots of crop spraying.
Bad news if you appreciate bio-diversity or want to farm in a way that works with nature rather than destroys it.
Bad news if you have cancer or have unexplained illnesses or you are amongst the increasing numbers of parents whose children birth defects or "mystery" illnesses.

All of which are happening in this country. NO one yet knows what the full extent of the effects of BSE will be, it could affect as may a 3 million or maybe 3,000. What if the next food chain disesa is dealt with as badly as BSE and Foot and Mouth because people are too tight to cough up?

If you think you're alright because you live in the West, think again.


Climate change cannot "destroy" landscape.

Of course you are right rainforest that turns to desert is still landscape and cosal errossion is a good thing if you think about it it brings the sea side closer for us townies



"Where the rich parts of the world will worry everyday and night about their safety from attacks by terrorist from poverty stricken parts of the world."

And that differs from the present exactly how?

"Where people will look back and kick themselves for not listening to the, as you would put it, irritating sermons of tree hugging do-gooders."

See this is my point exactly lets sort things out more equitably before we really upset the apple cart. Tree huggers and lefties have been warning about a backlash against the rich west for years and all most people did is turn up their big TVS so they wouldnt hear and NOW they worry. Well its not too late to DO SOMETHING but just worrying isnt going to help at all.


but you know that you'd be a pretty lonely cyclist on a six-lane freeway packed with cars.

Packed with cars that arent moving while I cycle by shaking my head.

Laters.

This looks very much like a failed attempt at a 'sophisticated' put-down. I don't know you, Oetzi, and I wish you nothing but good. But you'll have to try a lot harder than that!

Being nasty to people generally limits communication. No communication = no learning. I believe that if you set aside your preoccupation with intellectual bowel movements and present your views honestly for the consideration of others, you'll get farther, faster.

Pattern-chaser

"Who cares, wins"

Just as an aside, the evidence both for and against global warming being the product of man's activities is actually inconclusive.

The climate of the earth has changed in the past between extremes of hot and cold, the likes of which we have not experienced, nor are we likely to within our lifetimes. It is fully expected that the climate of the earth will change in the future. These changes in climate occur naturally and may be substantially beyond our ability to control.

It is now also supposed that man's activities may have an impact on the climate of the earth, either to affect the rate of change, or to have a separate impact. There are good reasons to suspect that this is possible. However there is as yet no significant body of evidence that either supports or disproves this supposition.

The questions before us are:

Given that alternatives could be employed or developed to limit the potential impact of our activities on our environment, should these technologies be employed or developed?

Given that cost is an issue, should measures be implemented to encourage investment in these technologies at the expense of older, potentially less environmentally friendly technology?

Then how do we determine what constitutes an environmentally friendly technology, deserving of investment?

Finally, how quickly and at what price do we want to move from the technology currently employed?


End of aside.

hi Madent,

<>

That may be, I don't know. But it does seem to me that the massive holes in the ozone layer did not occur naturally.

<>

I have read that very functional electric cars were developed many years ago. And while producing electricity can also have a negative effect on the environment, it does seem less so than the continuing use of petroleum. But since so much power and wealth is tied up with who still have oil reserves and who doesn't I can't see other options coming up until we have used up the last drop of oil. Sad to say.

<>

Well, I think so.

On the other hand, I also think that anyone who comes up with a clean environment source of power, or even a cure for cancer, should worry about meeting with an untimely death. Cynical? No, not really. It's just that so much money is tied up in these things that to offer another solution puts a lot of huge corporations at risk. And they *will* try to protect what they have going.

Oh, this is quite a depressing topic. But I do think it should be addressed more often.

Again, on the other hand, if Justin's God is going to wipe everything out anyhow and then create this 'perfect world' for the 'saved' to live upon . . .

az