h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

This isn't a "what's going on" type journal. It's more of a general query with regard to principle or conscience. I'd be interested in tapping the brains of any of my friends who still read my journal, to see how you all might handle certain situations, with regard to purchasing/ consumption and ethics.

First, in way of explanation, I make a conscious effort not to revel in decadent over-consumption, but I do buy a reasonable amount of consumer goods. I also subscribe to or use various services, as one does.

To the best of my ability, I avoid products which I feel are unethical in themselves, as well as those manufactured, sold, distributed or provided by companies with practices I find to be unethical or exploitative. I'm well aware that a lot of things I wind up with are probably assembled in some sweat shop, and that non-renewable resources are used in their production. I more or less have to live with that- but I try not to be too indulgent (and happily take all the hand-me-downs I can get!).

There's also the issue that in the States, corporations can not only pay lobbyists but can contribute directly to political campaigns. It's sickening, but that's the way it is, at least for now. I avoid, to the best of my ability, those companies which contribute to the political party most likely to screw people over. Don't think I need to *name* them. Then there's the utility and phone companies, which over here were deregulated back in the '80s to make way for competition... but in most instances there is no competitive market and so I am stuck with what's available regardless of how they treat their workers, or which political party they pay off. I live with that, too.

But when it comes to the little things, it's so much easier to just Do The Right Thing. Except when it's tricky. What to do then?

For example, last week I placed an order for a trilogy of children's novels my sister said she'd enjoyed. They sounded like something I'd like, too. They arrived today, and I opened the parcel (but not the shrink wrap around the books themselves) and found that they are published by a large company which produces a lot of children's films and operates a couple of theme parks. This company also espouses attitudes I find abhorrent- racism, anti-semitism and homophobia specifically. I debated returning them, but decided my conscience will survive. But how do I know I'm not starting down a slippery slope? I'd be interested in some feedback.

Has any of you ever boycotted any company or product?

I'm not really interested in debating which principles are right/wrong/important/trivial/whatever. Just in discussing how one balances one's principles with not being a totally ascetic hermit.

Hi, psychocandy.

I'm almost always boycotting something. Right now, in addition to a several years long boycott of Walmart, I'm boycotting all David Koch's consumer products.

Walmart, ugh! I've avoided them for years- fortunately zoning restrictions don't allow too many of them within the city limits (as far as I am aware, there is only one in the city). K's old employer used to give gift cards for Walmart a few times a year, and finally one day I convinced him that they already *had* the money and we might as well either use them or donate them, but not let Walmart just have that money for nothing.

Koch consumer products... is there a list somewhere? I used to utilize a web site called Buy Blue, which maintained a database of businesses which either contributed to progressives or which at least had ethical business practices. But they went away some time ago and I can't find anything similar.

(Also- I've noticed you visiting my journal more often, and realized you've added me to your friends list and I hadn't yet reciprocated... so I've rectified that now. )

Found a list for Koch consumer products- mainly Georgia Pacific. I use Seventh Generation TPand we don't use the other kinds of paper products at all.

Would love to avoid products by companies who collude with Koch though.

Koch brands include Chevron, Union, Union 76, Conoco, Georgia-Pacific, Invista

Koch's paper products Angel Soft, Brawny, Dixie, Mardi Gras, Quilted Northern, Soft 'n Gentle, Sparkle, Vanity Fair, Zee

In Europe, EU Georgia-Pacific EMEA brands Colhogar, Delica, Demak'Up, Inversoft, Nouvelle Soft, Okay Ktchen Towels, Tenderly, Tutto

Then there's Koch's money laundering service, Triad Management Services

Koch's mouthpieces include Citizens for a Sound Economy, Reason Magazine, and the Manhattan, Heartland & Cato Institutes.

Koch brand politicians Scott Walker and John Boehner

I haven't seen a Chevron, Conoco or Union 76 in years, but I'll add them to the mental list of gas stations to avoid. Never know when we'll be on a road trip.

>Koch brand politicians Scott Walker and John Boehner

'Zactly!

Wish I could avoid AT&T, but they're the only local landline provider.

Does the company of which you speak also have a theme park in France? If it is the company I'm thinking of, I know the founder had some strange ideas but I'm not sure the company itself still expounds those views

It's good to hear someone raise this issue because it's something I've struggled with for many years; I avoid giving money to "bad" companies but I've found that many of the "good" companies are as bad as the "bad" ones.

I boycotted Nestle products in the late 90s because of the issue of powdered milk in Africa but it never occurred to me that the coffee in the canteen at my work was a Nestle product so, despite my best efforts, I'd failed within days (though I didn't find out for months!) I've never set foot in an Aldi supermarket because about 10 years ago they sacked an employee because he had HIV. Having learned from my Nestle experience I've done my best to check that, and to the best of my knowledge, I haven't consumed a product sold by Aldi

It is v tricky but I guess all we can do is try our best to be and buy ethical.
Van

buy a single share in the company and attend shareholders meetings and ask arkward questions and table more ethical motions

I've boycotted a few things in my time, some of them for good reasons others for more petty reasons.

McDonalds was my first and longest lasting: when I was travelling around Europe I got frustrated by how ubiquitous they were and how awful their produce is. Especially in France, which had the most awesome markets and you could literally stroll along, grab some bread from one stall, meat and fruit/veg from another and finally some wine and you've got an amazing, locally-produced dinner and yet people still used McDonalds.

The final straw was seeing a few tourists munching on a Big Mac at the Arc de Triomphe while they were relighting the flame at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier. Not eaten McDonalds since. I've recently read that Subway has become bigger than McDonalds so I logically should probably shift my boycott to them.

I boycott Stagecoach buses and trains as much as I can (in some towns and on some rail routes they have a practical monopoly) because their owner is an outrageous homophobe who lobbied for Section 28, a nasty piece of legislation that was eventually repealed, and against civil partnerships.

Finally I kept up a boycott of Northern Rail for a few years because of the way I was treated by one of their train guards. I was rushing home from Uni to see a dying relative and this guy refused to let me on the (nearly empty) train because there were already two bikes on it, I tried to elicit some compassion and human decency from him and failed. Complained and got nowhere so I started boycotting them and maintained it until the company was taken over.

I'd nearly forgotten about this thread. Thanks to all of you for your feedback.

The company in question does also operate a theme park in France. I'm just not comfortable with their (at least what seems to be) formal notions of "family friendliness" are all that friendly. But that said, I kept the books. I've only just started them, and I'm not really get into the first one, so maybe I should have saved my money and tried the library first.

That said... I've boycotted companies mostly for things like not paying their corporate taxes, for homophobic attitudes or policy, or for any association with two specific major U.S. banks, Citibank and Chase (for screwing me over when I was a customer). I also steer clear of any company which manufactures personal care or cleaning products which aren't cruelty-free. Not a boycott per se, but I will actively seek out Fair Trade items even if it means paying a bit more.

Can't say I avoid any particular company just for being ubiquitous, though that'd probably be the case with Starbucks if I didn't hate them for having such shitty coffee.

Not that I eat at either, but there are a McDonald's and a Subway, sort of kitty-corner from each other, within short walking distance of my home (less than 1/4 mile). McDonald's seems to draw a much larger crowd, but that may because it's open 24 hours and has drive-through service.

"Can't say I avoid any particular company just for being ubiquitous, though that'd probably be the case with Starbucks if I didn't hate them for having such shitty coffee."



I have certain principles, PC, and I guess you're the same. I'm usually happy to meet people half-way, and don't make a big deal out of it, but there are certain lines I will not cross. For you it's animals, I guess. For me, it's certain newspapers that will never cross the threshold of any house I live in.

Ah, good to know there are others out there who think Starbucks coffee tastes awful. :D

I agree about meeting people halfway with regard to a lot of things- if only to be generally cooperative and nice, most of the time.

With animals/ consumer products, it's not always possible to avoid animal testing or ingredients, but when there is an option I tend to go with that. I did this even before I aimed for a vegetarian diet, simply because I didn't see a need to contribute to suffering if it's possible to produce the same product or results without it. It's not always avoidable, but I'm idealistic in that sense. I'm not a huge fan of exploitation of humans, either. For example, I swore if I ever got married (again), I would not want a diamond ring. I only have one because it belonged to my grandmother- sentimental value, family heirloom and hand-me-down all in one. Hand-me-downs, IMO, don't compromise principles- and are less wasteful to boot.

Newspapers... I haven't picked up a paper newspaper in ages (for shame) but there are some I won't read on principle as well. Trashy tabloids, and the Sun-Times, which has a serious right-wing bent. And I avoid Fox News in any of its outlets, not that you can call that crap "news" in the first place.

Speaking of conscientious consumption, I've just been watching "The Day After Tomorrow". I shouldn't have, because that film always drives me insane. Yes, it's a valuable moral, if very heavy-handed. But it gets ridiculous when they try to make a point about the value of knowledge by showing them burning books in the library to stay warm...

First, the hipster who doesn't believe in God saves a Bible for being "the first book ever written" - I'd go for a rarer one that isn't in all the other libraries around the globe. But what really gets my goat is how they're burning books to stay warm when there's all this untouched wooden furniture around them, which is a much better fuel source!

That reminds me of the old 1950s film of The Time Machine, where the guy says "You must have books - show me your books, and that will tell me all I need to know about your civilization!"

Then he finds the books and tries to lift one up. And it crumbles into dust.

"Yes, it *has* told me all I need to know..."

[And the papers that won't cross my door are the Murdoch press, in case anyone was wondering.]

""Ah, good to know there are others out there who think Starbucks coffee tastes awful. :D ""

if you want to drink awful coffee, go to weatherspoons, that way you'll only be paying £1 for it rather than £3

We don't have Weatherspoon's here, but I'll make a mental note it's not very good, either, and avoid it if I'm ever in the YooKay again.

I actually can't remember the last time I bought a coffee other than at a sit-down restaurant. We get such good coffee beans at Trader Joe's, a pound of which costs about the same as two coffees at most (though some aren't as pricey as others) coffee shops or fast food joints.