h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Well, maybe you have a point there. But just because something isn't as important as something else, doesn't mean that they aren't *both* important. As long as foxhunting remains legal (and it's not up here any more, hurrah) then we are saying that animal cruelty is acceptable. Personally, I'd like to see factory and other cruel farming methods go first, but a step in the right direction is better than a kick in the arse.

Classism? Not really. If these guys want to get on horses and go tearing around the countryside, in whatever ridiculous clothes they want to wear, I have no problem. Yes, I'd still think that they were a bunch of pricks, but I wouldn't want to ban it. Do I want to destroy the upper classes? Well, sounds like a good plan to me, but the two issues are seperate. I'm against animal cruelty, whichever stereotype you pick, whether it's Hooray Henrys foxhunting, or the Sun reader a housing estate kicking his pit-bull.

Still, eh, at least we've seen sense up here

Seen sense? Apparently, according to the news yesterday morning, it is still legal to shoot, or gas, or trap foxes. Its only illegal to kill them with hounds, and some bloke on a horse.
As a matter of interest, how would you propose to limit the numbers of foxes?

Munchkin, used to live in the country, never hunted anything, kind of middle of the road really.

*sound of head thumping the keyboard*

i agree, animal cruelty is bad. but its less bad thn mistreated humans. the thrust of the article is to try and get people to get some perspective. i also resent the fact that you call these 'hooray henrys' pricks. many are. some arent. some are my friends. you cant judge everyone who is from that background just by press and media stereotyping of them.

Is that similar to the media stereotyping those that oppose bloodsports as 'unwashed eco-terrorists'? I resent that. I buy fair-trade coffee, because I don't mind paying a little bit extra so those that grow and sell the coffee can earn a fairer wage. And yet you stereotype that as a fashion choice for the middle class - which is pretty offensive to me.

This isn't a class issue. It's simply a case of cruelty being unacceptable. Whether it's foxhunting, harecoursing, bullfighting cockfighting or dogfighting - and not all of those are restricted to upper class country types.

As for the flaws in the bill - I think that they'll become evident when the first clowns break the law and go-a-foxhunting. It'll have to be interpreted in court, and then we'll see. But the principle remains - here in Scotland we've voted for a parliament that has banned bloodspots. Even if it isn't perfect, the message has been sent that the days of such cruel practices are numbered.

To sum across a couple of threads here...

The herediatary system that we have in this country is ingrained and should be. I only partly agree with this. I consider myself a bit of a royalist in that I want to keep them. I also agree that places in the House of Lords and such should be hereditary, in the first instance, but then I think that you should prove yourself capable of keeping that place. After all it's more than common for a company to be eft to the eldest son, so why not other things? But, if after a few years that eldest showed no aptitude for the business and was making a complete balls up of it, then they would soon not have the business. I think this should also be applied to things like the House of Lords.
Where is this leading? Well, a lot of this debate is basing on the class system and potential class envy. Is it any surprise really? Bear baiting, cock baiting and dog baiting to name but a few were all pass times and sports of the working classes. Yet these were all banned many years ago as being barbaric and cruel. Nothing more than a form of torture for pleasure.
The upper classes have fox hunting. This hasn't been banned yet because it's a necessary art of life in the country. No doubt it is necessary to cull the fox population, but there are other ways for it to be done. You cannot deny that the majority of people who go fox hunting do so for pleasure. These are mainly people who have enough cash around that they wouldn't do something that they either didn't enjoy or couldn't afford to pay someone else to do.

I personally think that there is a major class distinction here involving the abuse of our governmental system, one which in a bizarre way I'm proud of, the people who've been setting the laws over the years have set them to please themselves. But then, who blames them? I'd probably do the same.

nothings perfect. but as far as i can tell, hunting is the most humane way of doing it. yes, many upper class people do do it for fun, which is probably wrong.

more to the point, however, is that people care more for animals than humans. which is monumentally wrong on so many levels. so instead of getting so stressed about animal cruelty get stressed about human cruelty. this includes, but does not stop with, purchasing fair trade coffee. which is very much a middle class fasion choice (well the choice of certain members of the middle class). they do it as much to keep up with the joneses as they do to appease their own atrophied sense of guilt. i dont doubt that you buy it for very good reasons. but there are other ways too. that isnt really the point

the house of lords does need reform. but possibly not in the way blair is doing it...landed gentry i dont see anything wrong with.

anyway, im off for a few days. i have peasants to oppress

Sorry, I missed something. Is someone proposing hunting the aristocracy with dogs? That wouldn't be very nice.

I think it's absurd to rationalize hunting anything with dogs as something other than a sadistic pleasure, one with a lot of cultural baggage attached to it.

There are more humane ways to control 'vermin' than by letting packs of dogs kill it, so the 'just doing our duty' line doesn't wash.

There are alternatives to a hunt that ends with a kill. There are many clubs which 'hunt' an artificial scent trail layed ahead of time. The participants dress up in the same costumes, drink until they can only just stay in the saddle, and romp around the contryside, exactly the same... except they don't kill anything.

The only thing left is simply enjoying the killing, which is a human attribute we can well dispense with.

JTG

Now, I'm a vegetarian and I hate all forms of animal cruelty, from medical tests to fishing and hunting. I am also from the country, where the majority of people don't like foxhunting either - how can the terrorisation and eventual mutilation of a poor, defenceless animal be seen as sport? Only our so-called 'social superiors' with plenty of time and money seem to enjoy this bloodsport, the hooray henrys who don't see a problem with ripping up the local countryside and tearing through fields.

And please don't go on about how foxes kill livestock - 1, it's very rare and 2, they only do it because the same idiots have hunted down their natural prey. Animal cruelty is not on - just because they can't express themselves to humans does not mean we are superior in any way. I accept that humans will always be meat eaters - it's natural after all, but there are better ways to go about it. Organic farming, anyone?

And I too buy fair trade coffee - it is my personal contribution to the third world peoples; in my opinion most charities are too concerned with making their offices look nice rather than sending out aid.

Glad I have that off my chest!

im not going to answer you fords: i wouldnt be polite

do i have you at a loss for words??!

not at all. ive just discovered that the best way to be tactful is not to say anything at ll.

Then we should raise a glass to the eloquence of the 94427 Researchers who haven't commented at all.

JTG

or lack thereof

i have decided that im not for or against fox hunting. but i have decided that medical tests on animals are more important than haviong lots of cute fluiffy untested-on bunnies. cosmetic tests are an abomination however.

With any luck the near future will bring us a genetically engineered animal that thinks of itself as a test pilot... Or computer models sophisticated enough to show cartoon animals going blind.

JTG

lol something like that

Hmmm, an animal that wants to be killed? Sounds familiar...

I can't agree on animal testing though - although I accept I use medicine that has at some point been tested on animals, I know of too much proof to suggest tests can be done more accurately in the lab - and of less cost too.

and of course giving money to get people to stop animal testing is far more important than saving human life. arent the little animals all so *CUTE*? yes they are. far nicer than those dirty arabs.

dear moderator, that was biting irony, not actual racism