h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

The "let's stay friends" line really is a load of old baloney. It hurts a lot more if you've been dumped to stay in touch and try to have a normal conversation when that intimacy is gone. Not to mention the torture you go through hearing about all the dating or whatever she's doing while you're trying to recover. Best thing is to cut off contact either for good, or at least for a few months while you find your feet again.

Hear, Hear. The best reply to that old chestnut is "Let's not." The line "let's stay friends" often translates into "I really don't want to feel guilty about this, so help me out here."

It can also become a part of what I like to think of as the "cafeteria breakup" where the dumper wants to still have access to some elements of the now dead relationship. This translates into something like" I don't want to date you anymore, but will you still help me move?"

The only line that is worse than "let's stay friends" is "I just can't be in a relationship right now." I had someone tell me that and wouldn't you know it--he was dating someone else 3 weeks later.

But on the other hand...

The people you go out with are usually the people who you share most with, and become your best friends. Throwing that away everytime a relationship breaks up means you lose a lot of friends. Often you might find yourself staying friends with the person in the end anyway (give it a while). Of course this depends on a lot of things, and anyway, it's always a tacky line and should never be said, but I don't agree that you can't stay friends with ex's. What do others think?

It depends on whether you were treated respectfully in the dumping. If they cheated on you or lined someone else up under your nose, then no, you certainly shouldn't be friends, because people worth being friends with wouldn't do that. If they honestly and respectfully told you that they didn't have feelings for you, and give you time to adjust, then friendship is possible. But still often difficult, especially when the dumper finds new love before the dumpee.

This time I've deliberately not tried to get in touch with the man who dumped me 3 weeks ago, I'm hoping he's wondering why I haven't, why I never responded to his "Cool it" "Need to get my head together" text - I guess I knew it was coming...even subconsciously.

I am forcing myself to believe that it's not him I'm missing, it's the hugs, kisses and the sex.



I can't be friends with an ex-lover.


I think people who stay in touch with ex-lovers have ulterior motives, as has already been said.

One ex {last year} dumped me, then 3 months later asked me out for a meal. I was eating & chatting about nothing when he suddenly announced that he wanted us to get back together.

Dumfounded, I agreed.

It turned out he'd been turned down for finance and he wanted a computer.

I signed the finance papers.

Then he started meeting women off the net and I found out he was spending weekends with a woman in Leicester, so I dumped him, but I knew that was what he wanted.



The latest dumper was the first boyfriend since him, I waited six months before trying the Lonely Hearts ads.

I still hope there's someone out there for me, but the more life experience I am getting, the more wary I am....the more chance I am going to die alone.

Staying friends is hard. You'll never manage it in the same way again.

But it IS possible. It takes time, space, and friends who don't take sides. I am godmother to the daughter of one of the guys who dumped me.

I still trust my ex enough to ask him to sign an enduring power of attorney alongside my sister. This means that they would have joint control of my affairs if anything happens to mean that I can't control them myself. In fact I trust him more than her in this case.

We aren't close friends. A539525. But after 5 years of hard work, it feels like I have gained a brother.

And I am likely to see the third ex next weekend.

So it *can* be done. And the biggest advantage is that you retain joint custody of your other friends.

It is tough though. And it requires massive amounts of self control, and a lot of time.

Ben

There's no hard and fast rules about staying in touch with ex's - it depends on how you feel and as has been said above, how the split went. I'm friends with 2 ex's - and their partners - and when I see them I'm reminded about how much I like them, but how glad I am that we're not still together - there are plenty more ex's who I would run a mile to avoid ... The difference: The splits where I've stayed friends were respectful, we had both moved on (without forming another relationship) and we worked hard at maintaining a friendship - the others - well they were products of nasty, spiteful and vindictive rows and I'm sure they feel as well shot of me as I do of them ...

I think it is possible to stay friends with an ex, but not with someone who's dumped you.

If you've been dumped, then that implies that - for you - it's pretty much come out of the blue. They haven't told you they were worried - possibly because they fear you might dump them. They haven't given warning and they haven't given any chance or made any effort to fix what's wrong. Inshort, they haven't involved you, even passively, in the decision. Instead they've spent the last few weeks, not trying to make the relationship work, but how to end it, and then they've just upped and told you that you're not good enough to be their lover.

But wait! You can still hang out, right, cause that way they don't have to feel so crappy for sticking a knife in the heart of the person who has been giving the relationship their all for the last six months - for most of which the dumper had probably already given up on it, but still kinda liked the smoochies - accepting all the now-dumper's quirks and foibles, giving them love and emotional support even to the end, and who is now basically being asked to continue to give that support in spite of the agonising, gut-wrenching pain of sudden and unilateral rejection; a pain that shall be renewed every time you see them and aren't with them, or see them with someone else.

If I sound bitter...well, it's because I am. I spent eighteen months doing the 'still be friends' bit after my first serious girlfriend dumped me, and through all that time I harboured hopes that we might get back together. Sure, to a large extent, the whole thing was my own stupid fault; I should have known better, just cut my losses and ran, but I didn't. Of course, I might have taken a different tack if I'd known that she was pretty much already dating the next guy (another ex who'd still been a friend, by-the-by) at the time of dumping, but she didn't feel that this was information I needed to have at the stage of making the 'can we be friends?' call.

I got a week's 'warning' in fact, but only because she chickened out during one visit to me at College, leaving me to obsess for a week over what I'd done to upset her - so far as I've been able to work out in the time since, nothing - then ditched me the next week.

Possibly my experiences are extraordinary, but then again maybe not.

But to sum up, I don't think that there's any good way to leave someone, but if it's sudden and hard enough to be considered dumping, then no, you can't still be friends; quite possibly, you never were.

The Prophet

Well, I think you hit the nail on the head. You harboured hopes that you would get back together. That makes it very hard for the 'still be friends' thing to work. My guess is it works only if both of you are out of denial, and on to the next stage of your live. Then you have no expectations of each other.

If someone you have been with for 15 years says to you 'Idon't love you any more; I don't want to be married to you;' and 'I don't trust you', I think that counts as being dumped. So I guess I qualify as someone who has been there and worn the t-shirt, don't you?

The key things to staying friends are

1) Don't be malicious
2) Don't say the unforgivable, unsayable thing
3) Recognize that the other person is in pain, and that you have probably caused a lot of that pain
4) Have NO expectation of getting back together again
5) Don't be jealous of new partners, it isn't worth it

And some people just are not worth staying friends with. But if you are a good picker, then it can be worth it.

a girl called Ben

It's hard to get out of denial when she won't say that anything was wrong - not what was wrong, just that nothing was wrong, it simply 'wasn't working' - even after she dumps you. I know it must be hard to frame in words why you think a relationship is going south, but I got nothing, not even a straightforward: 'I don't feel that way about you'.

And the fact that she was getting on with the next stage of her life, but felt it entirely unnecessary to tell me this for the next six months didn't help. Please understand, that for much of the period when I thought we might get back together, I thought she was single too.

Of your 5 factors, I broke one rule: I still thought we had a chance. I think it was the 'I really like you, but this isn't what I need _right now_' spiel that threw me on that one. I wasn't malicious and said nothing nasty until sometime after I'd got over the black depression and the pining and the wasting eighteen months of my life. I even defended her when she dumped the one after next.

I beat myself up constantly over what I'd done to make this happen - since even when asked directly, she wouldn't tell me - and in retrospect, the answer was 'nothing'. I even asked her once or twice if I still had a chance: A simple no would really have helped my state of mind.

These days I'm not jealous of her partners, I kind of feel sorry for them.

Maybe my ex just wasn't someone it was worth being friends with in the first place. The more I think back on it, the more I think that's the case. And maybe there are exes that are worth staying friends with.

But in the main, I still feel that if someone dumps you and wants to still be friends, it's because they don't want to feel bad about themselves, which is insidious, because even if you realise it, it just makes you feel they still care.

If you get dumped, I think it's probably a good thing to get some distance. Perhaps in time you can go back and be friends, but not right then, and not right there, because it isn't fair to either of you. The pain and humiliation is too fresh, and so you'll either say those bad things, or you'll just think them and stifle them, and you'll end up not liking either one of you very much.

It's also completely unfair to ask someone - anyone - to take that kind of rejection and just get over it, so I'm not sure that anyone who expects it should be considered much of a friend.

But I have a quarter century and one serious relationship terminating in one serious dumping, so my viewpoint may be skewed somewhat to the unnecessarily bleak. I hope so.

The Prophet

I want to reply to what you have said properly, and wont be able to until the weekend.

You are absolutely right about so much of what you have said. Personally, I can take any amount of truth, and I hate being f****d around with b******t.

But I have had to dish out unpleasant truths too - and I have bottled out in my time, in order to soften the blow.

Do you like thing?

All the best, and more later

Ben

Prophet,

I have to agree with you ol man. Partially anyways.

When your ex wants to be friends, I think it is mostly, but not completely, out of self-interest. I was dumped (after 4 1/2 years) on Friday night and it is now Monday morning. The extent of our communication over the weekend, which normally would have been 3-4 phone calls per day, now totals 2 SMS's comprising of a total, on my end, of 8 words.

"They haven't given warning and they haven't given any chance or made any effort to fix what's wrong. Inshort, they haven't involved you, even passively, in the decision. Instead they've spent the last few weeks, not trying to make the relationship work, but how to end it, and then they've just upped and told you that you're not good enough to be their lover." - Prophet

This is my situation exactly. About 8 months ago, my ex started to go off sex because she was suffering from a number of embarrasing and painful infections. Completely understandable. But when the infections stopped, about 6 months ago, she said that her desire for sex had been trashed. I begged and pleaded for her/us to see a sex therapist (covered by insurance here in the Netherlands), her doctor, a psychiatrist, whomever could help us overcome this problem. But she never did and our problem rollercoasted until she finally identified me, rightly or wrongly, as the problem. I'll never know what was the truth will I? This inability for her at least TRY to resolve our problems is what really pisses me off and in the end, puts me off the idea of friendship for now on hold.

Really, I should have seen the writing on the wall. Medical reasons were used as an excuse and I am at fault for beliveing in them. Don't get me wrong, there was no malicious intent on her part, just an inability to come fact-to-face with reality. Whether the reality was that I just didn't get her engine running anymore, or that some sort of post-medical psychological sexual problem caused our breakup is a question that will remain unanswered.

I think in the long run, not being friends with her, is the kindest thing I can do for both of us. She wants to be friends and cried relentlessly when I mentioned that I may move back to my home country (I am not Dutch), but that is just the way things may turn out. When you have been dumped there is only once person you have to worry about: You. Perhaps with her next man, she'll learn from us and approach any problems she may have with him head on.

A wonderful, caring, sweet person, I still love her with all my heart. But I have to be realistic. She doesn't want me anymore. Period. It is over. It may take a while for that to get through my thick skull, but the sooner the better.

Good luck to all of you in rebuilding your lives.

cheesedOff

man do i hear both u and prophet loud and clear. about 3 months ago i was dumped and, although things were rocky at the time, it was pretty much outta the blue. i was willing to fix us, but too pussy to actually make the first move in that process. i also went through a similar "cant have sex, im having problems" thing, but when the problems went away and i was not even getting affectionate kisses it sucked. it ended up that 5 days after she "just wanted a break to figure us out" she screwed around. i told her it was doubtful if i could forgive her if she messed around while on our break, as this would not fix what she intended to try and fix...US. regardless, it happened for almost a month, then a few weeks after that i finally found out about it. i was yanked on a chain all that time during the break, bc i wanted to get back together. i kissed those lips just hours after she kissed his....ugh. the worst part now, only 2 months past all this, she is regretful and wants us to be again. however, im not over it. dont get me wrong, i want her back too. but where u 2 r having problems moving on cuz u know theres someone better who wont do this to u, i want to get back together w/ her. but if i try and kiss her now, there r times when i actually think i may puke bc of her bitter tasting lips. what i wanna know is, if she/he did come back to u, is that ur answer? i dont know what my fix is, but i know its not that...

It never ceases to amaze me that the male in a relationship classes sex as a very high priority.

No offence guys, but your ladies just wanted a break from continual sex, by the sounds of it.

I don't know why, but I have seen programmes where women in long-term partnerships suddenly go off sex, and can't put a reason to it.
I suffered from it as well, during my marriage.
One night my husband told me, after sex "I could make love to you every night!" and I wanted to be sick.
I was trying to skim the sexual encounters down, to make it more special, instead of it becoming a chore like the washing-up.
It's the fat that it's ~expected~ of you to have sex in the steady relationship, that's off-putting for us girls.
The thrill of being wooed and won, has vanished.
Yes, we still like sex {hence your girl getting off with another guy} but the thrill of the encounter has gone.

If you get these problems, you should abstain from sex altogether and court your girl over again, even if you're married, don't stop being romantic.

And never EVER complain if she's not in the mood, when you start having sex again.
Ask her if there's anything else she'd like to do, and offer a backrub or a foot massage, with no sexual intent on your part.
All these things show you care, and you're not just after sex.

After all, you can always nip to the bathroom and take care of yourself, and she will go to sleep thinking you're the kindest, most sensitive bloke in the world, and she's so lucky to have you.

Maybe it will take a while for her to respond, but when she does, it'll be with renewed vigour and she will actually "want" to have sex, which I'm told, makes a great difference to the man.

Sorry if this is a bucket of cold water guys, but I've used the "sexual infection" line as an excuse not to have sex myself.



We don't want to lie, we don't want to hurt your feelings.
I've never met a woman who can look her guy in the eye and say "I don't want to sh*g you! I want a foot-rub!"
When we know all the guy is interested in is the sh*gging.

Did either of you take this advice?

It IS fantastically good advice too, AGB. For me, there are many kinds of sex ranging from and beyond the quick-and-dirty to the slow-and-langourous through the purely physical to the deeply communicative.

Foot-rubs and back-rubs and all kinds of stroking and touching are as important to me as sex in communicative and emotional relationships, because they are about touching someone else in richer and more varied ways.

So - good advice AGB.

And didja try it out, guys?

B
*who has recently discovered a whole range of additional erogenous zones on her back*

i have a had a very on off relationship with my ex. she has dumped me three times and asked to get back together which i did. after a month of moving out she told me she was seeing someone else.she said she didnt like him all that much but she did it to "move" on....and that it probably wouldnt last, also she wanted to tell me she wasant saying that to assure me.nice. she said we should break contact in order to move on and then started ringing me...i didnt bother answering her calls until i eventually texted her to ask her to stop.i really do feel her behaviour was complketely selfish in that "i miss you so could you make me feel better " kind of way although i secretly fantasised she may have changed her mind.its been 2 weeks since i told her to stop contact but its now messing my head up. without wanting to sound immature does anyone out there think there is a possibilty she may be thinking shes made a mistake.more importantly do people think its better to make a go of your own life rather than wait to see if she changes her mind.

...so the concept of compromise is something only men need consider?

I can buy that women need romance in order to feel loved and appreciated.

Most men need sex in order to feel loved and appreciated. It's a different currency, but equally valid. This is the age of equality, is it not?

BOTH partners should put some effort into the giving and receiving of gratification. It isn't just a man's job, you know!

i know you wrote this a long time ago, but it is the suddeness factor you spoke of that lead me to write to you. I have a bit of a quandry: my now ex (18 days ago)has a present he wants to send to me. I don't want him to because it's like a consolation prize/finalization of the relationship that I can't deal with. However, he also doesn't want me to stop by and pick it up. Any advice?

Who dumped whom? Presumably he dumped you. And he wants to give you a present, but only on his terms. Do you think he is saying 'jump' in order to find out how high you'll jump?

If he really wants you to have it, then it is up to him to get it to you. Sending it via a friend might be a good move. Or posting it.

If on the other hand he is playing games, and trying to see whether or not he can whistle and you will still come running, then sod him. You don't need a present with strings.

Good luck, and let us know how it goes.

Ben