h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

I am in the age group where most of my friends now have young children. It's aweful! I am not a child person to start with but I have had to tell a number of friends that I will not see them if they have their children with them. I do think that one of the biggest problems is lack of corporal punishment. I know that it's now illegal in many parts of the world, and have you noticed how it's the parts with high crime, and other social problems?
My mother gave both My sister and I hidings when we were little and we grew up respecting her and others.
My personal nitpick is that I think that children should be banned from restaurants. We went out not too long ago and there was a brat running from table to table pulling the table cloths (and crockery and everything else on the tables) off onto the floor while the parents looked on. I went over to the parents and told them to restrain their child and was told that the child "is keeping herself amused"!
I know it's nasty, but when I hear a child running up behind me in a shopping centre or the street, I stick out my foot. Its my way of keeping myself amused!

I'm a parent myself, but I do believe that parents are to blame for their problem children. We live in a society that expects things to be done but people don't want to do it themselves. As a parent it is YOUR responsibility to teach your child right from wrong, to teach them manners and to respect their peers.

There are a few kids on our street that I have dubbed the 'feral children'. They go about doing exactly what they please and although they're not doing anything malicious, seeing these kids knocking randomly on people's doors, playing in the road and opening the car doors of people who have only just pulled up is unbelievable. It is annoying but what does that tell you about their parents that they're getting away with this?

"I do think that one of the biggest problems is lack of corporal punishment. I know that it's now illegal in many parts of the world, and have you noticed how it's the parts with high crime, and other social problems?"

No, I haven't. Which countries did you have in mind?


I do agree about banning all children from restaurants. I'd also like to ban all women (a woman once kept taking mobile phone calls in a restaurant I was in), and all men (a group of them were at a table once, and were talking very very loudly and crudely).

I have to agree that the parents have to be the biggest problem. Like the parents of thst girl "keeping herself amused" in the restaurant, it's up to them to find acceptable ways for her to amuse herself. Was she not eating as well!?!?!

I've seen some kids that get away with whatever they want with their parents. What's even worse is that the kids *know* they can get away with it if they pull the right face!! I mean what's the world comming to!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

I´m a teacher. I can tell you that if the Roman Circus were back and made legal, it would be a hit. Lots of audience.

Children an adults MUST learn good behaviour, we humans have a clear tendency toward chaos, brutality... if are not properly socialised.

Respect the others, to be sympathetic...in other words: apply the Emotional Intelligence must be learnt and taught.
late is never. Just try you who are reading this to say something good, not flattering, something that you really consider good of a mate, friend, son, neighbour... anyone, or about you : you are good at?
lets be positive and kind... it works.

Good point. I'm sure as a teacher you see some great examples of poor discipline coming into your class.

I've several friends who teach. One recently told me of a boy in a class she took who was incredibly badly behaved. They were trying to work with the parents to improve his behaviour and one of the agreed things was that if he'd been good all week his parents could buy him a new video game. My friend said there was one day during the week the parents picked him up and she told them he'd been good in the morning and they then told him they'd take him out for a new game. Total disregard!

I think kids are rarely as bad as the parents. Walking down the street one day saw a kid making a bit of a fuss, as small children will and the mother literally screamed at him, grabbed the child by the arm and dragged him along. When he started complaining she literally spun him round and slammed him into the door of a shop. That's not corporal punishment, that's having a temper tantrum, and that's no way to teach a child about appropriate behaviour.

That said, I don't approve of coporal punishment either. I mean, my mum did smack me when I was being a REAL pain / hysterical but I can probably count the times on the fingers of one hand. Instead, she spoke to us (me and my sister) as adults and explained why our actions were out of line, tended not to get so much angry as dissapointed and told us to 'think about things'. Any kind of punishment should be a last resort, and physical violence can damage trust. If you trust your kids, and let them know what you expect in return from that, they're more likely to be trustworthy.

Few too many literally-s in that first bit...

"I think kids are rarely as bad as the parents"

Good point. My values and view on life mainly come from my parents and I'm pleased to say they've stood me in good stead (most of the time!) We were taught to be polite and to respect our elders. On the other hand, you should see my aunty's children; they're little brats because her and her husband simply don't take the time to teach them right from wrong.

I feel sorry for teachers these days, I really do. Although I don't approve of corporal punishment teachers are terrorised in their own classrooms and that's got to stop. Imagine some 14 year old nyaff mouthing off and being disruptive in class but being totally powerless to do anything about it? I was too scared to be bad because I'm from a small community and if someone said 'I know your dad' I believed them, so I behaved

I certainly don't think corporal punishment is necessary to promote good behaviour.
As has been said, the problem is far more the bad behaviour of parents & total lack of consideration for other people.

Interesting point aboit noisy diners in restaurants. Recently we were out, enjoying a quiet lunch. Two other very loud, noisy parties entered the dining area & ruined the atmosphere for us as we could then no longer converse comfortably. I guess pre-dinner drinks were somewhat to blame, perhaps other people would have said what a pleasant lively occasion. Maybe I should choose where to dine more carefully?

I cannot believe how evolved we have not become!

Children are people too. Treating them as such will teach them how you expect THEM to treat yourself and others.

Corporal Punishment! I think you've just put your finger on one of society's greatest ills.

Signed,
One very proud parent.

Sorry I'm still laughing at post 1!

I disagree (funnily enough...). The French, Italians etc are always admired for their welcoming attitude to children and families in restaurants. They don't automatically disturb other diners, and it's the best way for them how to learn to behave properly. If they're shown how.

I don't think that there's a direct causal relationship between the absence of corporal punishment and rudeness. Respect and fear are two different things, and our prisons are full of people who experienced corporal punishment when younger.

Respect and fear...good point. Though definately you shouldn't be slamming your kids into doors at the slightest thing. I haven't heard anyone here saying that corporal punishment's totally wrong. Though there's a huge difference between the odd slip on the wrist and child abuse.

Have to say I do believe in explaining the behaviour to a child of any age in a way they understand. Tell they why they're being punished. One thing I've always heard said is about following through. Parents can just want the easy option sometimes and not follow through with threats of grounding or confiscating toys etc.

Corporal punishment..hmmm thats always going tobe a tricky subject.

Whilst I would never say 'bring back the cane' I don't see any harm in a well aimed slap across the legs when all else has failed with a little one.

Bck to the subject of manners though, it really is how they are shown them. My son is 10 and can be a real sod..but when we're out he knows his manners. I never have to coax him to get up for people on the bus/train, hes forever holding doors for people, asking old ladies if they neded help carrying their shopping, says please and thank you etc. I'd like to think its because i've put such an importance on manners myself. He can grow up to be a bank robber if he wants but he'll bloody well be polite about it has always been my attitude

The better the gangster, the more polite they are

Corporal punishment is a tricky one. For example, when a little 'un does wrong how can you explain their actions when they have no idea of what you're talking about? If my niece does something bad my sister will tap her on the back of the hand. She doesn't hurt her but my niece hates it all the same; my sister hasn't had to do it for a long time now, so I guess it can work in certain situations.

Just as an aside. Apparently the Victorians would never punish their children immediately after they'd done something wrong. Instead, they'd wait for half an hour or so until they'd came down and then smack their children so they wouldn't get carried away in the heat of anger. I always thought that was kinda chilling

I've heard some parents say that all they need to do now is give their kids a look and the kids know they're in bother. Though it takes the effort when they're smaller so they know the look and what could follow.

The Victorians may have had a point. You don't want to get carried away and beat the child to a pulp. But at the same time you can't leave it too long either. That whole "wait till your father gets home" thing....wouldn't really work the same if it's been left all day. It's like a conditioning thing - you have to reinforce or punich behaviours at the time.

My little nephew is smart he's learnt to undo buckles and all manner of catches on restraints he's even wily enough know just when my sister is least likely to be able to catch him at the front door. Now she never holds her youger daughter in her arms while at the door. She leaves Destiny in the living room and takes Devante to the door holding his hand all the time. This is because if he did run off no matter how many times @rseholes like the first poster tripped him up for running lodly and unattended down the road he'd never larn any better. His autism prevents that.

Three days a week I work with children and young people who have been kicked out or are about to be kicked out of school there are two main reasons for this one is that they have parents who have never taught them to be in the least bit subservient. You tell htem they have got something wrong and they are getting angry and shouting about harrassement and victimisation. The kids hav got a long line of excuses why they dont need to tow the lne and do things in an acceptable way.

The other reason tend s to be that the kids have huge amounts of learning dificulties though not as profound as my nephew's autism they still have problems processing information about social situations. If anyof you were asked your best friends name you might struggle thingking abotu which of your dear friends represented the best one. These guys cant remeber the names of people they see on a day to day basis. we have to go over ther targets on an hourly basis to keep them freh in their minds.

Sometimes any of us can forget our manners absentmindedly but for these guys every situation is almost like doing it for the first time.

Now Im not saying that this is the reason for the alleged lack of manners these days but when I meet the parents of children who fall into the first category its apparent that their parents belong to the second group. If its not taught and picked up early scialisation is a tough skill to pick up.



Smaller children can be raised without smacking being used. Lets face it if they cant understand the language you are using when you tell them off its hardly likely they are going to get much information from a slap on the legs. A child doesnt stop pulling the dog's tail because you've smacked them and they now understand that you think its wrong. They stop because they are too busy crying.


one love

It's been proven that younger children respond more to physical actions rather than verbal ones and I don't just mean a tap on the hand when they're naughty. This also includes lifting a child away from the DVD player after sticking a slice of toast and jam in it

Nowadays parents are too quick to label their children as having ADD or whatever instead of addressing their bad parenting. Now before anyone starts I'm not including geniune cases here (cos there's always one who will go 'oh, but..' to my comment ) but when I was younger most kids who would be labelled with some sort of social disorder would just be plain disruptive, normally with parents who couldn't give one about their little darling's welfare.

So why are you maybe going to prison then? Is it for your criminally long posts?

Id argue as you do that demonstrative action is a good tool for teaching young children, but I really worry about our obsession with items that children can fiddle with is creating extra stresses on parents that just werent there in times gone by. Forget reveries about when people felt it was safe for kids to play out. In the last one hundred years our homes has been increasingly filled with devices either dangerous to children or that parents think are fragile and need to be protected from the sticky mits of kids. That stress on the parent affects the child.

So while they are restricted from so much outside freedom as little ones while being marshalled not to damge things inside, when they get to the surly and sulky hormonal stages of teenage years they are mostly ignored or chastised for moods swings they arent fully in control of.

Where in our modern lifestyle are the opportunities for children to learn about the older generations, their peers and themselves? Without that sort of learning its hard to develope self or mutual respect.

one love


PS.

Well there are lots of reasons I might go to prison, but the most likely one is that one of the teams I play for, I float between the 1st and 2nd (day by day age dragging me down like gravity) at my club is in a merit table competiton with HMP Featehrstone.

I was also going to apply for a job teaching sports in a prison but I changed my mind as I cant think of a more depressing place to work.

Speaking of prisons...

Its astounding when you hear about them but the percentage of inmates hwo have learning dificulties are......astounding. You cant expect children with learning difficulties to cope with teh same level of work as mainstream kids. They get into work situation avoiding behaviours and this leads into a spiral of bad behaviour and eventually criminality because they have developed a negative attitude and self image. It's sad how many of my "thick" school friends have ended up in prison.

There may be something in that, but weren't there always items that children wouldn't be allowed to touch for some reason or another? I think it's more individual personalities - I managed to teach my children not to tough, or 'touch gently' without too much stress. It was in other people's houses that there were problems, where they had different things that couldn't be touched!


The teenage mood swings have always been there - but in the past, teenagers were probably out at work, kept occupied. Perhaps it's more of a problem that we have too many 'childminder' devices - TV, video games etc instead of doing things with our children - even if that was just everyday chores in the past.

It's a combination of factors that change society & the way people behave.