h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Has anyone seen it?
And if so.. What did you think of it?
Real or Fake?

Years of experience have taught me to detect pseudoscience.

Since there's no such thing as alien abduction, any tape showing alien abductions must be a fake. Trust me.

OK. fair enough.

What do you think has happened to the family then?

a porn tape of elle mcpherson has been released??!!

oh your talking about alien abduction

Ironic, you misunderstand me. I only read as far as the bit that said "alien abduction", and then reached my conclusion. I didn't get as far as any family going missing, nor am I going to read it. There are any number of reasons why the family might have disappeared. Alien abduction is the least likely one.

Gnomon

why are you sure there is no such thing as alien abduction? yes there
are some rather dodgy tales, and video footage but as a whole i would`nt rule it out. not saying this mcpherson tape is alien abduction, i agree with you their disappearence could be down to anything.

Alien abduction is as likely as abduction by angels. There's no evidence that either exist, and no reason to believe that they should exist. I'm sure there are aliens out there, but unfortunately none of them have reached our part of the galaxy yet.

i think alot of people out there have realised that there is money to be made out of alien abductions, ie America. not to say this is the only place just the most common. so maybe alot of people have jumped on this money making bandwagon.

i believe that aliens have visited Earth (roswell incident and cave paintings in south america show strange pictures of U.F.O`s) so alien abduction is feasible. i can understand why a living being other than human would want to abduct. look at humans with diesectiong and studying animals. as i said its all feasible, just not provable.

Gnomon, I think that is a bit extreme considering you dont no!

What do you mean, I don't know? Of course I know.

What evidence do you have to support your theory that aliens dont exist, you dont.
The same as people who believe that they exist dont have any evidence, nobocy no's!
so do you want to rephrase that then?

*nobody*

If there is no evidence that something exists, and no reason to believe that it should exist, then it doesn't exist. Aliens on earth and in the solar system don't exist.

Once you start saying that they might exist so I have to prove that they don't, then you can use the same argument about anything, such as purple crows, auras, the healing power of crystals and the tooth fairy.

I know that none of these things exist. End of story. As I said earlier, trust me. I have a reputation for being right.

we our selves are evidence!
i get what you are trying to say (althhough you could have put it into better words) but your dismissing somthing that you have no clue about, i agree with you that there is no such thing as abduction or aliens in our solar system, but thats just a opinion and so is yours.

I'm dismissing something because I have a very good knowledge of what is and what isn't possible. It may be "only an opinion", but it is one which is shared by just about everybody with an ounce of sense.

What does "we ourselves are evidence" mean? What are we evidence of?

We at one point were alien to this solar system and planet!
I agree with you, but not your "whatever i say goes" attitude.

>>We at one point were alien to this solar system and planet!<<

Oh really?

Panspermia back in fashion is it?

For my money the idea of aliens visiting gets silly once you start contemplating interstellar distance, and the consequent effect this has on observations about time.

For example Alpha Centuri is the next nearest set of stars to Earth (after the sun) they are .4.4 light years away, meaning that it take light moving at the speed of light a little under 4 and a half years to get there. eg, if there were any planets at Alpha Centuri (there aren't - at least none found yet) the the light from our star and our planet which would be reaching the whatever form of eye had evolved on said planet, as it peered down the "maginifometer" for which a famous famous alphacenturian was once persecuted by the magisterium of Arglebargle for having dared to point Alpha Centuri wasn;t the centre of the visible universe) would be 4.4 years old. Circa 2005. Assuming they had really excellent resolution that could maybe detect the continents or even if they had extra super-special life-detecting valves they'd be just in time time to see Labour get re-elected, George W. Bush's inauguration, the death of pope John Paul.

As you start getting further and further away so the visible light that's only just reaching the observer gets older and older, the nearest known planets so far don't have a solid surface (all gas giants) so there's not going to be anything like a lens or a radio telescope to detect our activity, let alone anywhere to stand to look up.

As you get further and further out in search of a civilisation you are going further and further back in Earth history. In terms of what signals there are that left the earth and are now only just reaching certain points in the universe.

So you are looking at a total life span of extra terrestrial signals of about 100 years.(Sateltites date to only the 1960's with the launch of Sputnik in 1957 so that a mere 50 light's years distance, before there are no signals being sent from earth orbit that can be detected. Wireless radio is older dating to the 1890's. So at best the only stars which could have haitable planets, with advanced and technological societies on them capable of *even noticing that that we are here* must fall within the circumference of a region of space bordering approximately 110 light years.

How many stars fall within that distance - lots.
How many of those stars have planets - some
How many of those planets are capable of supporting life? unknown but the number will be small.
How many of those life-supporting planets will have evolved creatures capable and able to take notice of our extra terrestrial signals. - An even smaller number.
How many of those have the ships and technology to come here and buzz impressionable Americans? Tiny.


I recognise what I am doing is arguing from improbability. Of course improbable things occur all the time and merely front-loading the argument with the amount of improbability doesn't mean it didn't. but in order to hold the opinion that this is a true description of reality there has to be some mechanism for defeating the probability.

For example, an eye is staggeringly improbable bit of evolution but the mechanism of natural selection beats the odds. (it would need to beat the odds on Alpha Centuri too) The molecules of peppermint oil in the gum I am currently chewing were derived from a plant grown in India. What were the chances of that, that this particualr molecule from that particular leaf would travel all this way? But we have a mechanism, of farming , agriculture and world-wide shipping that can account for it.

The problem when it comes to inter-stellar space aliens routinely visiting earth is that it relies of supposition and invention to get over the problem of improbability.

Let's just suppose the aliens were coming from Alpha Centuri, they'd have to have an engine that could propel their craft at the speed of light (or somethgin close to it) then they'd be here in a little over four years. So we're postulating on a set of physics that is hithertoo unknown. It could happen but it's a supposition.

Assuming that the energy costs of making such an extravagant journey were prohibitive so instead at coming at light speed they came a bit slower. For example two of the fastest known engineered extra-solar objects are the voyager probes travelling at 37,000 miles per hour, so for arguments sake let's assume the alien ships can match that.

It would take them not 4.4 years or even 100 years to get here but rather 79,749.30 years.
Now depending on the life cycle of the hypotheised aliens they might do better than a century as we routinely manage, but to suppose that the same aliens who set off from Alpha Centuri are the ones who arrive would imply they were either geriatric or had bred on the way, or you are required to invetn some kind of stasis chamber to get round the problem.

Then there is the question of the 79, 750 years (rounding up). Human existence accounts for about 100,000 years total. Human civilisation perhaps 10,000. So the aliens if they set off to greet some interesting looking apes on the african savannah would today be greeted by MTV watching, hairless bipeds carrying ipods. Assuming that what got the aliens so excited to pay us a visit was the hairless ipod-carrying biped, what are the chances that within 7/10ths of the time it has taken humanity to evolve at all, that we won't all be extinct from climate change, some mass pandemic, global war or a comet impact?

Now I've already said there are no planets at Alpha Centuri so the problem is magnified and even worse than this.

Now this doesn;t mean there are NO aliens "out there" - the chances of that are quite good in fact. However the chances that they are even aware of us or capable of crossing the vast distances between are very, very improbable.

And with no mechanism to explain how it happens, I don't think it does and the people who think alien visitation are common are making it up.



Clive.

hush your gums