h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Where to go to? Beach or something scenic? Want to go back to Scotland so badly but may end up visiting Yellowstone Park, which is not bad either.

>> Is it just us, the overorganized Germans? <<
>> ..other people remotely likely to put up.. <

France. They have an 'Academy' that polices the language.
Writers like James Joyce, James Thurber or John Lennon would never have been published in France. Then again, if they had been French they probably wouldn't have become writers. They certainly wouldn't have had so much fun with language.

I just tried to imagine what French translations of their works might be like in French. Scary. There would be little reason left to read them in French.

I suddenly think of Vladimir Nabokov, who spoke and wrote in several languages. In some of his best, certain puns work in three or four languages simultaneously. Even the title, "Bend Sinister"; does it mean 'turn left', 'twisted badly', 'a turn for the worse', 'leftist tendencies',...?


~jwf~

I've thought of somebody else, the Irish. Those Irish Gaelic classes weigh quite hard on the poor pupils. And now comes a chap name of M J Harper with the idea that the Gaelic languages are only historical in the west coasts of Europe, and puts up some quite convincing reasons for that in History of Britain revealed http://www.blather.net/shitegeist/000126.htm. Fortunately hardly anybody knows him.

Actually in Germany we could do with a similar academy as in France. Apart from anglicisms and general sloppiness and impoverishment of language it could also crack down on the seplilngroferm, i mean of course spelling "reform". Only who would we staff that academy with? I hear there are quite some enthusiasts of the German language abroad, maybe we should ask the UN for help.

Methinks linguistic studies are very hard to conduct as there is not much proof around centuries ago. A lot of it is based on assumptions. Not the big picture, more the details are hard to find out.

Who knows how Latin was pronounced! Like we Germans do and especially now where they introduced the hard vowels c as a k instead of the g sound? Don't think so, the Romans are the precedessors of the Italians.

My humble opinion.

http://www.themodernword.com/joyce/joyce_chronology.html

"Ulysses" was first published in it's entirety in Paris...

http://www.thurberhouse.org/DefaultThurberBIOpage3.htm

Sorry.

"Wondering... was there ever such a thing in Britain or US?"

Well, yes. There have been many proposals for a reformed or easier spelling.

George Bernard Shaw, for one, the father of the famed "ghoti" comment.

Noah Webster, the man the dictionary company's named for, had ideas about a simplified or rational spelling and wrote a pamphlet about it.

But mostly it has been a gradual thing. And many collections of letters and magazine or newspaper articles, as opposed to manuscripts and books, show a marked tendency among the populace to write and spell as they please, regardless of any education they might have received.

Literacy is a relative thing.
I am continually surprised at the number of people with college degrees who do not read. This is a form of functional illiteracy.
I am also constantly annoyed by the number of "Christians" who don't read the Bible, but only memorized their favorite parts.

My wife, Uvula, is a nursing professional. She can fill out reports in the medical patois all day long, stringing abbreviations and latin and french terms with abandon. Yet, she has little acquaintance with everyday Englich, supposedly her tongue of choice. She cannot splel very well, nor can she compose, except in that kind of officialese that she is accustomed to at work.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/alabaster/A338825

has a mention of the "ghoti" gag.

Which makes it really interesting to see how English does as it's taking over the role of Latin as a universal language. For instance I find that the use of idiomatic English is more of an impediment than an asset in international communiction which is a "purer" and simpler English, less expression, less colour, but very functional.
Talking about universal languages, the oldest university in northern Germany was founded in 1419 and stood in the Latin Square, so named because everybody around there spoke Latin, not German.

Latin was the language of the educated, the clerics and philosophers spoke Latin as an universal language. the first bibles and thus the first books were written in Latin. Every monk or priest had to copy a katin Bible, as there were no printers available.

While in the ancient Rome it was the height of eddication to talk Greek.

>>..idiomatic English is more of an impediment than an asset in international communiction..<<

Good point! A day does not go by that someone here posts in what they consider a clear and friendly way, only to leave lots of us wondering what was actually meant.

AS you suggest:
>> ..a "purer" and simpler English, less expression, less colour, but very functional. <<

Yes! Quite often, those for whom English is a second language are the most successful at communicating their ideas. They take the time to think thru their idea and how best to express it plainly and concisely. Most of us just "fire from the hip" assuming everyone will understand what we say.

I do it myself. All the time. I write as I speak. And quite often my 'accent' and my use of local terminologies fail to successfully communicate. She gets worser when I writes with the dialect, eh.

There are lots of US researchers who have no idea what many Brits are on about and just as many Brits wondering what the Yanks are saying. Chips versus fries is just the tip of the iceberg lettuce.

It's no wonder we have trouble hanging on to 'forrin' researchers, even though we are all keen to extend our world view and make new friends around the world. We'll all have to be a little more careful and be prepared to explain ourselves with patience and courtesy to foreiegn speakers.


~jwf~

"There are lots of US researchers who have no idea what many Brits are on about and just as many Brits wondering what the Yanks are saying. Chips versus fries is just the tip of the iceberg lettuce."

While I confiscate everyone.


You'd be surprised how many ancient priests and preachers had no acquaintance with the actual text of the Bible.

In many cases, if they could read and write, they often took down lectures or commentaries.

The privileged sects, often under the patronage of rich folk or rich clergy, kept access to the actual Gospels very limited because they believed Origen when he said that "the uninspired mind can find grounds for any heresy in the Scriptures if allowed to just read it without instruction".

Luther had heard of Origen and he thought he was a spoilsport.

How well do Brits and US American understand each other?
Comes to mind
"sods"
"panties"
"jumper"

...

Simple. I spent my teenage years listening to Elvis Costello, Ian Drury and the Blockheads, TRB, Jethro Tull, Hawkwind, the Clash, the Jam, Kraftwerk, Nick Lowe, Bebop Deluxe, Lene Lovich, The Who, and others of that ilk.

Later I moved onto people with really strange pronunciation, like Focus, Scorpions, Accept, Golden Earring...

For years most of my vocabulary came from recordings.