h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

This forum has become very heated. tons of assumptions.
I have a few problems here with both sides (apparently we clearly have 2 sides having war of words)
for the the people who believe in Oak's thery:
1) I agree if the truth is Taj was built over a hindu structure, let it be known in the history of taj. Nothing wrong with it.
2) Taj was built with influence of different architectural back grounds so its not unusual that it has some elements of Hindu architecture because all those put together is Indian architecture.
3) if it was a controversy by British and the congress govt. why didn't the BJP government (leaders of which were blatantly involved in babri demolition) uncover the facts. It would have obviously gotten them much more popularity among the fanatics.
4) why haven't many more experts come out with similar claims?

for the people who are refuting it:
1) it is not a good idiea to refute his claims without doing a research yourself. In other words why sweat yourself when you are not an expert neither have the research backing on the topic.

how do I know Proffessor Oak is an expert. I find nothing to tell me who the man is.
I mentioned in another thread that if this is the guide to Likfe, the universe and everything there should at least be an unedited entry to answer that question. Some italic replied that i should look here. Well, i looked. My question remains. Who was Mr. Oaks?

Guess my post is a bit out of date, but what the heck!

This Oak dude finally says that EVERYTHING is from Hindu origins. Have a look at his farout statements. And if any of you believe that this is seriously true, then i think you are without doubt fanatics:

1. He has claimed that both Islam and Christianity originated as distortions of Vedic beliefs.
2. the word Islam itself derives from the Sanskrit term "Ishalayam" meaning the Temple of God.
3. Kaaba in Mecca was originally a shrine to Shiva
4. Christianity began as a form of devotion to Krishna
5. "Christianity is a mal-pronunciation of the Sanskrit term Chrisn-nity also spelled as Krishna-neeti.
6. the Papacy was "a Vedic priesthood" until Constantine the Great killed the Vedic pope to replace him
7. the tombs of Humayun, Akbar and Itmiad-u-Dallah
8. the Vatican in Rome was a Hindu Temple or palace
9. Stonehenge was a Hindu Temple or palace
10. all historic buildings" in India are also Hindu temples or palaces.

I guess even the Leaning Tower of Pisa was a Shiv-ling, the Statue of Liberty was a hindu goddess, Angel Falls is actually the Fountain head of the gods, so on & so forth.........

@ Sikander
We dont care if u r muslim... here the discussion is abt the Taj Mahal... and the findings of Mr.Oak makes complete sense... its with proper proofs.. and one more thing i think u need to really go c the taj ur self.. i think u never saw it.. so tis is ur reaction towards tis...
and Indira Gandhi was a b**ch and lot of things were covered up and.. india is in this situation cos of her politics.. !! So i completely believe it... and i would spread this knowledge to all..

@ moxie

stop giving those bull shit ball talks abt some religion.. what do u know abt hinduism?? Like that Dan Brown wrote abt the Jesus who supposed to be the f**n saviour!! tat he slept wit some female and romans want to cover it up.. and ur sayin its not true!! Its been long since truth has come out..
To tell one more thing..
in all other religions ty hv to go to their respective holy places mayb church or mosque and get blessed.. then ur of that particular religion
But its not so in Hinduism..
Muslims need to cut their penis to identify themselves lol ...

@ moxie

u don even kno wat ur writin.. don just make up shit and write..
abt kaaba in meeca was shiva's temple has some proofs.. and has been controversy..
even now in India some muslims go worship in temples too... Shiva temple.. k..
there r places where muslims had brought shivas ling and constructed temple.. and the tradition is still continued.. by those families...!!

What Mr Sikander said has been true. It is no exageration to say that the sangh parivar outfits is very jealous of the fact that Taj Mahal created by a Muslim ruler has attained much admiration evry part of teh world.

The Oak theory is nothing but another ploy by the sangh parivar outfits to divert attention to all those silly evidences and proclaim that a temple existed.

The so evidences or symbols can also be created in the case of Ajanta Caves to claim it was a muslim prayer hall demolished to make way for temple.

I was expecting this sort of weird theory since it had been long time since the sangh parivar outfits is having problem in accepting TAj as national symbol.

Recently a BJP MLA in Karnataka criticised Tipu Sultan (???) that he did not contribute to the Kannada language inspite of the fact Tipu Sultan not only being regarded as a great ruler Karnataka but of entire country who withstood british aggression

The reason behind this allegation and the oak theory is the same- Inability to accept a muslim's contribution to the society, portray muslims in negative manner so that they will not accepted in public and create consipracies to divert the attention of the public.

To sum it up-The oak theory is just a big lie which is cleary a part of the sangh parivar propoganda.

I will not be surprised if some other theory comes into place about any other Muslim monument or Muslim ruler since many are in pipeline.

If ur from karnataka then i think u still dunno the truth abt Tippu Sultan..
He was never regarded as a great King ..!!!
he was a dog of british.. who got betrayed as usual (wat else can u expect from em) and fought back!!
And abt him contributing to kannada literature.. Der is proof tat he was completely against kannada.. never respected the lang other than URDU!!!

A lot of discussion/ rather war of words on this topic! After getting this info in a forwarded email, there was this "Oh my god!" thinking which led me think maybe this is true. But as I do with all forwards, I wanted to check the validity of it and landed up in this page. This is what I found from searching over the web and I am placing it here so that whoever posted replies/ supported Oak know where they stand.
1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taj_Mahal - if you go to the bottom of the article it talks about a Supreme court ruling in 2000, saying Mr. oak's petition to declare it as a hindu site was dismissed.

2. [If you dont believe in wiki and need some authoritative media], http://www.hinduonnet.com/fline/fl1801/18010730.htm: This is an article from Frontline, a leading unbiased weekly magazine from india. This also talks about the Supreme court dismissing Oak's petition. [It also talks abt Oak's stand that most medieval buildings in India are Hindu origin and werent built by Muslims]

Now that makes one thing clear - there isnt any substantial evidence to prove that it was a Shiva temple which was usurped by Shah Jahan. [Am sure we believe the supreme court ruling]

Coming back to all the posts which supported Oak's theory [failed theory rather], can they think on the below and answer these questions.
Assuming you still beleive that Oak is correct, so what if it was a Hindu temple?
1. Do you want a shiva lingam to be placed there and make it a place of workship? Does that mean restoring the truth? If it became a symbol of worship do you think ppl from all over the world will come to visit it? Many come there not only to see the architectural beauty but also because it is a symbol of love. So what happens to Agra's tourism industry? If ppl dont come for Taj Mahal will they come to Agra just to see the other smaller places? Maybe not. This so-called truth will kill the livelihood of so many families in Agra!
2. All of you are educated and definitely can think better than our "aam aadmi"/ a villager. If WE dont check the facts and read the facts fully how can we expect the commoner to do it? How can we be swayed by some false/ half-baked statements?
3. Think abt Babri Masjid - 1 grp wanted a mosque and the other a Ram temple... after all these yrs what remains now? - a posse of security police in that area!! If this Oak's campaign is left the way it is, Taj might have an ending like this. Thats the cost of the so-called truth/ rewriting Indian history! [you bring a civil war and boy! that IS rewriting history!!]
4. And why blame the govt for everything! Of what national importance is this issue when compared with the agri crisis/ economy/ dvlpmnt of the poorer sections of the society?

Without further deviations, let me also add this: this whole machinery of hatred/ hindu-muslim divide comes from a basic fact: the absence of mutual trust and the absence to understand each other and accept the differences. So a small spark is good enough to ignite a controversy/ unrest in the society. The minute you start viewing things from a "Hindu" perspective you find "Muslims" are against you and vice-versa. In order for peace to prevail there should be an Indian perspective in the 1st place.

Think about it, what good does this theory do if at the end all that is left are impoverished families, hatred between hindu-muslims and maybe a damaged Taj? If I were to decide, I would rather not let this theory/ propaganda spill further - not only because it is evil also because there isnt solid truth to back it. May peace prevail and hope our friends get their common sense thinking back

Whether Oak's views have any credibility or not can only be determined if the sealed rooms within the building are opened and an independant panel conducts the enquiry. There is no need to fear public backlash for whatever the result of the equiry may be the building will not lose its beauty and will not affect tourism to the site. On the contrary, resolving the controversy should attract a larger number of visitors due to the sealed rooms being accessible to the public especially if it is proven that the Oak's views are correct.

Scorpion.....how dare you desecrate Jesus, how dare you make fun of Mohammedan traditions!?! Dont you know its a crime to make fun of them minorities who are the main vote banks!

"Frontline, a leading unbiased weekly magazine from india".......This is really side-splitting. Kudos to rmsathu for that top-of-the-line entertainer

Again and again, I find these conversations entertaining!

Carry on the good work, guys!

i totally agree with everything scorpion has said

Hi dear,

Go to this site and see urself. It's not only Taj Mahal but so many other places has been captured by MUGHAL Rulers and modified as TOMBS or MOSQUE. Have you heard or History is saying that any HINDU Ruler has attacked or captured any country? Do you have any evidence that Hindu Rulers captured any MOSQUE and modified as Temples ? Why it is only for MUGHALS? I believe ONE MUST ACCEPT REALITY OF HISTORY, not by religion but by its ORIGIN of belongings/developers.

http://www.stephen-knapp.com

I appreciate your skills as I don't have those but i'd just want you to visit one more popular building called qutub minnar,in delhi.I don't have much knowledge about history but when I visited qutub minar a year ago I could easily make out that It must have been some ancient hindu building or ancient Indian building as u'd like to call.And the tampering done on the carvings of stones and walls are easily noticable.when I later enquired I got to know that It was a 'vaidshala' (Lab) of a popular astrologer,made by maharaja Jai Singh ,yet again!.And that's One of the four built by him.
Conclusion can easily be made by these records and timely poping up fact that there has been Vedic presence through out the globe!

being a student of architecture, i can completely understand the references given by Sikandar. Oak's views have no academic credibility whatsoever. Its just a conspiracy theory and it will remain so..

its an interesting topic no doubt..

a normal hindu would definitely get a sense of belonging immediately to taj mahal after this article, whereas others would wonder what the whole commotion is abt..

even though i'm undecided whether i want a proof of taj being a hindu symbol or muslim symbol, i wud want to get to know if there is really any salt worth to this "conspiracy theory" as such. let me for a moment forget abt the political and religious reasons persisting at the present times and go back from today till the "commisioning" of taj mahal.

iam not that good at history and even say that i have not made any detailed research abt it, but the first hunch that comes to my mind is, since the "commisioning" of the the taj mahal delhi-agra region has been ruled by muslim rulers.. till before the independence.

during this period, people fought for independece and/or seperate state. hindu rulers were trying to break away from muslim rulers and later indian rulers were trying to break away from english rulers. hardly the topic of which building is a hindu, muslim, aryan, european might have created a stir. the focus was not to the individual buildings but lands. and since delhi had the most powerful muslim rulers in the indian subcontinent, hardly any thought would have gone into opposing any monument in their region.

post independece and post partition lots of things changed. muslims sudddenly became the minority communityand congress ruled the roost for a long long time. the subsequent governments tried to hide a lot of topics from the general mass.. e.g shubhash chandra bhose where abouts.

it is a known fact that we indians are an intolerant lot. there are obviously few percentage of people who are moderates and think perspectively abt issues but then those people hardly matter. so i guess the government is doing the right job, if at all it is covering the actual facts from us and trying to avoid an embarassing situation in world politics abt internal intolerence.

no goverment would ever ever like to have this issue raked up during their tenure, be it hindu, muslim, left or right govt. if there are repercussions to this issue it will affect the progress of our country a lot and set our economy back by atleast 10 yrs and affect the overall morale of the people.

it is best to forget (forgive) the rulers in history for some wrong deeds they might have done knowingly/unknowingly. if you believe that taj mahal is a hindu monument, smile at it the next time you actually pay a visit to it and try to accept the fact that it a national monument today and ppl from arnd the world actually look at taj mahal as a shining symbol for india.

so i guess at the end of my article i have decided that finally i dont want a proof of origin. i hope u also decide the same..

having read all the posts, it has deeply saddened me to see that even now, even on a harmless forum, we throw ourselves at each other religious opinions with such strong feelings, that it makes me shameful to be an indian. I have come to learn that educated people, presuming educated people are using the internet these days, are filled with so much anger and vile when it comes to such issues as finding out the true origins of a monument. The Taj Mahal is undoubtedly a great monument, and we are willing to take indian lives, indian hindu and muslim lives, to know the truth. i say this because it is clear from the posts there is much resentment of another's religion even among educated people and it can be seen as clear as water in this forum. Respect, i always thought was a very Indian custom, and practised whole-heartedly by Indians, but it is certainly clear from the words used by many in this conversation, that respect for another's opinions, or even respect for another as a human being, is a long lost attribute for the educated indian. I have traveled to many places and have had the opportunity to meet people from many different countries, and it has become clear to me, that Indians are certainly not the best of people in the world. It was always a misconception i carried with me.

The truth of the whole matter is so simple!! Muslims came to india univited and fukd it up!! AMEN!! Just like the british!! If muslims did'nt come to india UNINVITED then there would be no problems!! The Taj and EVERYTHING in india and ASIA is HINDU!! Simple fact, hinduism is the oldest religion alive....all these other religions must have come from somewhere?! OBVIOUSLY FROM HINDUISM!!
Muslims are bought up to be SLY...look what happened to PRITHVIRAJ CHAUHAN.....He captured that bloody morehamed of giz or wat eva his name is,but let him go on one condition, that he never come back to india...but the SLY w****er came back and took PRITHIVRAJ CHAUHAN and killed him....but first tortured him!! Now that is fukd up shit....the morehamed could have let mr chauhan go but no!! DONT TRUST THESE PEOPLE!! AMEN AMEN AMEN......REPLY IF U DARE!!

hey sikndar,
pls dont be so hasty about drawing conclusions.Bsically it is accepted fact that all over the world architectural designs have influenced other cultures.So it is commonly seen across India that Hindu kings' palcaces show Islamic arcitectural character and vice versa.

The point is not about architectural evidances but about chronology,the official records ogMughal courts ,archiological Survey of India's suspisios move,etc.

Moreover it's not about Hindu's or Muslims ..it's about truth.Why shoud billions of people to kept in dark ,why should they pay for pony stories who are neither hindus nor muslims?

The whole world is getting duped. Its shocking. Along with Taj Mahal I think we have to probe many other sites like Jama Masjid, Red fort, qutab minar, Ajmer mosque,once a hindu temple...
Those who have invaded India should not have their name on any monument, their name should be removed once for all.
Both shahjahan & aurangzeb are rascals who usurped temples all over india & converted them into mosques.
All these hypocrites who ruled india for 800 years were able to convert only 25% of the population to their pseudo faith.
I think All Muslims in south asia are duplicate or converted.