A Conversation for The Controversy Surrounding the Origins of the Taj Mahal

Oak needs a Psychiatrist

Post 1

smackhard

For me the article is lame because of the following reasons

1.)If something called Tejo Mahal already existed before Taj it should have been famous already.
2.)If this was done to a hindu temple, Indian History should have a witness to an historical riot against this action which is not found in the records.
3.)What were the indian people or better say the hindus doing for 22 years when "Tejo Mahal" a hindu temple was being transformed into a tomb of a muslim queen
4.)Oak was also foolish enough to conclude that Mecca the holy place of the muslims and Vatican were spiritual places of hindus ?
5.)The architecture is purely islamic.



Get a life ....


Oak needs a Psychiatrist

Post 2

swanand

1. There are many ancient monuments, Temples, forts, and ancient sculptures in India which are not known to the world so they are not famous. This study and findings about Tejo Mahalaya not Tejo Mahal are very recent and was supressed due to political clout. So this statement of famousness is foolish.

2. This statement about riots is also foolish. Does every proof should have a histroy of riots? I think the fellow who has made these statements knows very little about Hindu culture and its motives. If you want to know about Hindu culture you should start from some stories of Panchtantra. In India many thrones were shifted without riots.

3. Indian / Hindus can do a lot but this is not a Babri Masjid.

4. Mr. Oak doesnot say that the monuments of Mecca and Vatican, which are seen today were spritiual places of hindus but the places and some internal structures and remains are considered for proving it.


Oak--he's telling the truth

Post 3

vprashantha

islam is always using thier term of rules is destroy and conquere.

we know this allready 9000 years back this evidance can be get by doing yoga of your own. do the meditation you will know what's this is universe meant for....?

we hindu people never fight for themselfs ..like if our temple was taken by islam or muslims..we dont' bother abouth let them take...only the truth will prevail in the near feature.




Oak needs a Psychiatrist

Post 4

vramana_99

1) History is always suppressed by conquerors. Dont you have that simple common sense ?
2) Riots cannot happen when the state or rulers themselves are murderers and inhumane !!
3) Same as #2
4) Islam and Christianity are kids in terms of life span compared to Hinduism. In hindu scriptures timecycles have been mentioned that are very close to what modern science believes as far are the age of Universe is concerned, ie. 4.3 billion years. The Hindu scriptures that have been passed on thru generations orally have mentioned the about the life that existed even million years back. So, without lack of prove otherwise, its very much possible that Hinduism was the only prevalent religion million years back and perhaps mecca and vatican were Hindu spiritual places.
5) So what ???


Oak needs a Psychiatrist

Post 5

upyourfacehindus

Hindus are peaceful my ass.
1.)Caste system still exists in rural India
2.)You Kill girls.

Quote: Swanand "There are many ancient monuments, Temples, forts, and ancient sculptures in India which are not known to the world so they are not famous. This study and findings about Tejo Mahalaya not Tejo Mahal are very recent and was supressed due to political clout. So this statement of famousness is foolish."

First i need to PARDON your broken dictionary before making you take it up your face.

More than 140 nuns have been raped by murdered by Hindu activists who oppose Christianity's Growth in India and you call yourself peaceful ? i have been to your country and let me tell you that the place where i stayed was full of slums and no one was bothered about them. and a beggar was verbally abused only because he entered a local lodge to beg for some pennies. You are not what you are to them as you are to us. Your approach to foreign visitors is fake, the love and gratitude by which you welcome us is nothing but an attempt to make an impression.

when i asked the manager about this he was like leave it 'Sabaji' "You nothing to do with this".

smackhard's points make sense, if a small hindu temple were to be brought down in India by muslims it will hit CNN News inspite of being local, here we are speaking of something that has been voted as a "wonder of the world" and you say it was supressed. "GET A LIFE"

besides that the Taj Mahal and its present architecture is purely Islamic, the four minarets are similar to what we find at Mosques, the reason why Taj seems so beautiful. i don't think will appear as beautiful as it is if it was having Hindu architecture and design.


Oak needs a Psychiatrist

Post 6

world_weneedpeace

I'm a citizen of Republic of India and by birth I'm Hindu. I'm here, neither to support nor against Hiduism or Indians. I'm here to share something. Mr.Oak is dead. He doesnt need a Psychiatrist anymore even if he does. Hope this put an end to this Subject - "Oak needs a Psychiatrist".

Regarding Taj Mahal controversy; My point of view is :

It is absurd arguing Who's Taj Mahal is? Who built Taj Mahal? Muslims or Hindus?
Who ever has built it? It has been built. It is build by humans. Protected by humans all these years, and now??? we fight? for what??
Everybody likes Taj Mahal, Everybody marvels its beauty. Everybody includes Hindus, Muslims, Christians and others...

Forget about the past, whos it was? Since it is in Indian soil, does it mean it belongs to India? Imagine where India is? earth! and earth? Universe!. If we compare with universe we are mere atoms, even much smaller than that. and yet we fight, we argue, we kill, we die. Are we humans? or Animals under the skin of humans.

Humanity! Where is it? We lack humanity. We differentiate ourselves by various reasons.

What is Taj Mahal? Its a building. A beautiful building. What if it is a mausoleum or Shiva temple? Its an architectural beauty. Admire the beauty. Learn architecture. Get good knowledge out of it.

To whom it belongs? Its a world heritage. One of the wonders of the world. It belongs to all of us; to humans, not only humans but also every living creature that can understand, admire and express.

How old it is? It is very old, infact dying. Still it is beautiful. Is is our responsibility for its longevity. We are responsible for everything happening to Taj Mahal, either good or bad. Definitely, it needs attention but not this way. Why dont we just stop arguing, stop fighting, instead, we will unite to protect it. I understand it is difficult but it is not impossible.

Just think for a while. Try to reason yourself. Put yourself in the middle, no partiality. Judge yourself. If you still wanna fight, just fight for a cause, fight for humanity, fight for peace. WORLD PEACE.

--

FELLOW HUMAN


Oak needs a Psychiatrist

Post 7

world_weneedpeace

Regarding those nuns;

I feel terribly sorry for them. Its a shame. Hinduism never encouraged violence. And not all Hindus are bad. A true hindu can never involve himself in violence unless it is utterly needed. If I was there during that incident; I would've chosen violence as a last step, not to kill those nuns (humans)but to stop those activists (humans)..
Mordernisation has ruined us and everyone else. Everyone has the right to preach and practise their own religion. Similarly no one has the right to force or even ask to convert religion. Religion is what one believes. Its a belief. It is individual's wish to practise what he believes.
Religions are being commericialised, involved in politics in modern world. Religions remain in their original state but people change, their ideals change and they blame religion for that. what an atrocity? We are divided by religion, and being divided... no one ever tries to understand.. we are humans, made of flesh and blood, we have wonderful heart to love and amazing brain to understand, reason and express.

Stop fighting, start living.
If you wanna fight, fight for peace.. world needs it.

--

Fellow Human


Oak needs a Psychiatrist

Post 8

skurudi

There are many things in Indian History which has been kept secret
1) The number of temples destroyed by Ghazni and Ghori, these Islam rulers thought that destroying temples and building mosques as there religious duty.
2) The number of Hindus killed during Muslim rule is still a mystery
3) The number of temples destroyed in Kashmir is also countless.

There are so many attrocities which are kept secret and are not revealed in Indian History books.


Oak needs a Psychiatrist

Post 9

geekay35

Oak may or may not be correct.

But why is the Indian Govt. & the Waqf board reluctant to open the doors and chambers of the Taj? What are they hiding?


Oak needs a Psychiatrist

Post 10

Sureshkumar12111

Mr Oak Who are u?
give your brief detail?
First I would like to say u, dont spread wrong information, you want to make war among Indians, You have taken good way to make indians fool.
Again Hindu Muslim will fight like Babri Masjid, Again many common and innocent people who ever it may b will killed by some bloody idiots.
Again some terrorist will take birth,
Again our india will face much problems.
Many indians will b killed in this case,
Politicians will take good chance for winning the election.
They will continuesly open this issue in every election.
Whoever will die in this, Mr Oakm, you will b the responsible.
Bcause you have created this balalaalal.

My Kindly request you to stop this all bakwas, keep it with you only, you entertain your self. dont indulge innocent people in this. you have devil mind, So please keep it with your self.

For your Kind infomaion.
Whatever proofs you have given is not sufficiant, asked it with your heart?
ok for a sec I will agree with your proofs,
But this is good enough to know that Muslims only given many visiting places to india.
What did hindus Rulers for india?
They ruled sayin that SC St?
Muslim Rulers said, No one is SC and ST. All human Beings are equal.
Do you know the name, Hindustan Given by akber, if they are bad then why he has given this name to india?
Why Akbar restricted tax from Hindus, For yatra?
Why Mohammad Gouri said, Nobody is chamar and nobody is from lower group?
Why mohammed Gouri has given equal rights to Dalits in his period.
So many things abt india boss.
I dont have time to write.

My appeal to indians.
Dont Listen
Dont read these kind of articals
and dont beleive on these kind of articals.
Other wise again many deaths and wars will happened, between hindus and muslims.(Might b your relatives or your family members get effected of these war)
now its depends on you how will u take it.

We are Indian, We have Proud to be indians.smiley - hug


Oak needs a Psychiatrist

Post 11

sathu108

The whole world is getting duped. Its shocking. Along with Taj Mahal I think we have to probe many other sites like Jama Masjid, Red fort, qutab minar, Ajmer mosque,once a hindu temple...
Those who have invaded India should not have their name on any monument, their name should be removed once for all.
Both shahjahan & aurangzeb are rascals who usurped temples all over india & converted them into mosques.
All these hypocrites who ruled india for 800 years were able to convert only 25% of the population to their pseudo faith.
I think All Muslims in south asia are duplicate or converted.


Oak needs a Truth

Post 12

jishna

Guys I am neither a Hindu nor a Muslim nor a christian... I am Indian...
Let it be a Hindu Shiva temple, or a muslim grave yard for the kings.
Let it be Taj Mahal or Tejo Mahalya…
Does any of these things got to bother u guys…
For all I believe this is a penny less argumentation…
The peacock throne is gone in this Taj Mehal, the gold that was flourished on the walls are also missing, the 700 wives are also not there to tell which is true or false… If these things were there will that provide any food for me or in other words will it give me any money for us in this ression time… smiley - wah
If Dr.Oak says something then why cant we show ‘em for his project.
He will not be getting Doctorate for nothing right.
And ofcourse it’s with the help of UN… where its office is in Chennai only.
They are having enough money to build us another TAJ MAHAL.
If it also helps to clear all our depths for the Indian government then it can also help us to improve our life style.
smiley - ok


Oak needs a Psychiatrist

Post 13

Politicalpost

In response to your post:-
1.) The very name Taj Mahal means Crown Palace. Tej for crown and Mahal for palace. If it was really named after Mumtaz' tomb they would have selected words sounding as such.
2.) India was defeated by Mughals Kings starting with Barbur, a descendant of Ghengis Khan,a Mongol Empire King-from a uncultured and ruthless tradition that squashed any religious riots that's why we don't see any historical writing of it. Five generations of Barbur ruled that part of India to transform the original culture.
3.) Did not get your third statement. But my 2.) statement answers it. But let me add if Mughals came from cultured origin would they not have such wonderful structures in Persia or their original place Turkey. If their ancestors Ghengis Khan came from cultured society would he not built a Palaces like Taj Mahal in his Mongolia empire?
4.)Muslim religion is relatively new. It came into existence only 1500 years ago.What was Arabia before then? It was known as Arvastan, origin from Sanskrit "Arva=horse" and "sthan=place" So from ancient times Arabia was famous for it's horses. Arabia peninsula was part ancient Silk Routes to India and China. Christianity is only 600 years older than Islam. When Alexander the Great in about 300 B.C conquered all lands up to Current India, he had established relationship with India where cultural exchanges took place between Greeks and India when they established embassy in each other land. Apart from religion, mathematics, philosophy, astronomy influences may have exchanged. Famous Pythagoras theorem would not make sense in Greek or Roman numerals where V*2=IV*2+III*2 it's not possible to think that formula with that numerals except ancient vedic decimal numerals where 3*2+4*2=5*2.So even Pythagoras had an influence from India. That formula was already in existance in India in trigonometric form sinA*2+ CosA*=1. Prof Oak was not foolish because he has the similar concept of how languages transformed from origianl root Sanskrit.
5.) What is your basis to say architect is purely Islamic? I suppose you may say that because of the Dome on Taj Mahal. I am currently researching any ancient Islamic Mosques that have dome that predates Taj Mahal, which was the first influence for Islamic architects. All Mosques that I checked so far exists after 1600. From the carbon dating it is believed that Taj Mahal was built in or about 1100 A.D.
An Enlish architect E.B. Havell in 1912 established building of domes is of Vedic origin in India.His original book is on internet free. Please read it.


Oak--he's telling the truth

Post 14

amin_ajani

This message's especially for vprashantha and others too...

u say "islam is always using their term of rules is destroy and conquere."
first of all, i would like to tell you that Islam always believes in Peace.
Looking at the followers of islam, one cannot judge about islam.
cant digest it? well ill explain u:

Lets suppose u bought a Mercedes BMW. And u are a novice driver.
U get inside the vehicle , drive and end up killing an old man beneath the tyres.
Was it your fault or the vehicle's?

i hope the reader knows the answer.

So, Islam is just like the BMW.
Its great, but some of their "Drivers" are not worthy.


"The best religion in the world is Islam. And the worst people in the world are Muslims"

Thanks.


Oak needs a Psychiatrist

Post 15

bhikhabhindi

hindus r a peace loving people
the world is seeing how "peaceful" muslims are..LOLsmiley - ok


Oak needs a Psychiatrist

Post 16

AS

ok WOW. Get ur facts straight about India and its history. COMING TO INDIA ONCE AND VISITING A SLUM once does not give you the power to make such an assumption about India. Thats the problem with alota foreigners, they come and want to see the poor, violence and uneducated of India cause thats what theyve seen on TV or news and think they know the truth about India.

As for the nuns incident,yes thats very sad and shame on those Hindus, at that rate i dont think they belong to any religion whose main message is peace. And taking into account the history of India this is a small compared to what has happened to Hindus or India for that matter thrhu many invasion. First it was the Muslims who invaded and destroyed so much and raped so many woman and subdued so much and once an nice equiliubrium was found between the Muslim invaders and Hindus, it was Europes turn to come invade India to "spread education and stop ignorance". WOW did they have it all wrong. The British came in the name of religion because they thought Hindus and Muslims in India were stupid primitive people and they needed to be fixed. Once they came, all they did was loot and loot some more and rape and kill people. When the british left, India was in ruins, its astonishing what India has done in 60 odd years after the British left them in poverty. There are ONLY HINDU ACTIVISTS LIKE THAT NOW BECAUSE first the Christian missionries come and tell them UR religion is wrong and u need to stop being so primitive and they offer shelter to those who do convert and let those who stay true to their beliefs die. None of this action from Hindus is unwarranted. IM not justifying their actions just saying that what Hindus are doing are just a taste of what they have gotten.

Im not saying any religion is bad if you got that from my excerpt above, every religion preaches peace and love at its heart, its just ppl that spread wrong messages for power it only takes a dumbass not to realize that. We need to stop arguing over the past and look at what it is now and live peacefully. The whole Taj Mahal argument is actually sorta foolish because Its obvious it is a Hindu monument, theres overwhelming proof that the structure is Hindu. Theres no PROOF of shah jahans so called love story.

and oh ur mature, basing India off of one group of ppl u met. I live in america, so i could base america off the idiots who call me osama bin laden in the streets. You would be forgetting about the other 95 percent of great people in both countries. stop being so ignorant.

and as far as history being masked, history has always been distorted. For example max muller proposed Aryan invasion and that Indian civilization started around 2000 BC earliest. Im going to put what i think of his findings in a simple way-bullshit. Everything about his findings have been proven wrong. EVEN HES ADMITTED THAT HIS FINDINGS were fabricated.History is always changing. Learn that people also thought what they thought was right until somone came along and totally proved them wrong.

all im saying, is all this rubbish ur saying about Hindus and India is wrong. No religion propogates violence, only the people for power have. live in peace and think about how we can make tommorow better instead of arguing over the past.

Jai Hind


Oak needs a Psychiatrist

Post 17

Aron

It is not Oak but those who are in denial who need the Shrink.

Your reason for rejecting are not lame but fickle-

1 If something called Tejo mahal existed it must have been famous-

If something must have existed by that same name it should have been famous doesnt rule out a Temple Palace having been there.

Archeologists have dug out entire cities without having been suspected to have existed in historical records.

The question again is not if it was Tejo- Mahal, but whatever that stood there before which is what we are attributing to Shah Jahan.

Carbon dating cannot be said to be something 'hallucinatory data' to rule out its antiquity.

Unless u bend over backwards to maintain the status quo- and say that woodworks were crafted with 300 years old wood !

2 If this was done to a temple, there must have been a riot!

What a sound mind yours that says this when many Temples have been confessed to have been razed down by Mogul rulers themselves, read- the Babur nama, Aini Akbari, shah nama ....
Riots did happen as in varanasi, but were mercilessly put down by Mogul army.

About Taj Mahal, the piece of land with the royal garden and tank and palace were bought from Rajput vassals.
The sum of money too are recorded.

3 Where were the indian, ie, hindu people doing in those 22 years...

which 22 years?

The whole case is that the Travier never could have witnessed its building and 22 years was just a hearsay he passed on.

Read British Architects report hopw it could not have been built in 22 years and why- if u have cognition disorder.

Pelsaert has recorded in 1626 that the whole stretch of Jamuna was littered with splendid marble palace-temple complexes, and Raja Mansingh's palace was the last one.

Historians have recently begun to take notice of this question- why was this record not taken into consideration?


4 It is not Oak who foolishly concluded, but many other such fools having a reputable historical credential.
That the kaba was a Pagan house of idols before Islam took it over is recorded in Hadith and Al-Siraj.
The only excuse is that Islam restored it to Abrahamic Monotheism and removed the 360 idols there.
there are no historical records of Abraham visiting anuwhere near the pagan shrine of Mecca.
Even abraham is not accepted by schoilars to have been a historical figure.

About it being a Hindu Temple is based on Oak's discovery of Orkut pre-islamic Arab poem written in favor of Mahadev the lord of kaba that is in Turkish Library.
He provides the details in his book.

This again,has no bearing to Taj.

So, with such weak lines why use harsh language about Researchers who can anyway have to be answered and their questions logically...
not curse words like fool and 'needs a psychiatrist' ?

Lastly have you bothered to explain what proof u have of it being built by shah jahan other thanh the now rejected Travier's diary and can u quote a single line from Shah Jahyan's memoirs?

Wakeup, from Denial- and if u cant help it find and get a yourself a shrink.

This is a forum for intellectuals, not for shrieking curse words.

















you need a Psychiatrist

Post 18

dexter

You are stupid because of the following reasons:

1. The temple was not known to the outer world because of the persian link to europe.

2. The barbaric army had captured the palace.

3. The temple belonged to a particular king and it was captured by a big barbaric army.

4. You are foolish because you are too dumb to understand the article.

5. Do the muslims have music auditoriums near their tombs? I guess it is for the entertainment of the ghosts who lie in the tomb.

The reason you posted this is because your parents were too poor to find you a therapist.


you need a Psychiatrist

Post 19

tejendra

Dear All,

Taj mahal is great architecture, my be it is a muslim tomb or a hindu temple.

Let professional team decide the true story, behind this with all evidences and facts.

Be calm, don’t be pathetic because of pride of religion.

Fact to world is Taj mahal located in INDIA. And It is the most beautiful architecture made of marble.


reply to the post Oak needs a Psychiatrist

Post 20

Smith

dear smackhard,

1)if something called tejo mahal existed it should have been famous already.. how can it be famous the then generation dont have mobile phones or internet. there was no source to publicite about tejo mahalaya.

2)in indian history we dont have any evidences or records in books that a temple was built in this place and in this period. all the details will be sketched on temple's walls. and in this case shah jahan modified the past temple to a tomb.

3)India at that time was ruling by Muslims i.e Moghul emporers. So if we say a word against them they would have no word to talk with you. they'll kill you. So people didnt refuse to talk about this. so cared about their lives.

4)Oak was right. there aree many evidences that proving Mecca or kaaba is once a indian pre historic temple. Hindu religious evidences many were found in these places.

5) Architecture. these temples were modified by the rulers. they were firstly built as hindu temples. when some or other ruler had power in kingdom they devoleped the province and modifies the palaces or temples of their own architecture priior to the original ones.


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