A Conversation for Tips on How to be Planet Friendly

Don't Recycle

Post 1

Blatherskite the Mugwump - Bandwidth Bandit

Excuse me? Run that by me one more time?

Don't recycle. Paper, at least.

According to a really smart fellow at the Cato Institute, Jerry Taylor, you're not only wasting your time, but you are hurting more than you are helping. "87% of paper stock comes from trees grown specifically for the purpose of paper production. Acting to 'conserve trees' through paper recycling is like acting to 'conserve corn' by cutting back on corn consumption." He then goes on to show how 13 of the world's 50 worst polluters are recycling facilities. You see, paper brought into recycling facilities has a nasty petroleum product call "ink." The ink must be removed before the paper can be reused. This creates toxic sludge as a by-product, and every 100 tons of recycled newspaper produces 40 tons of muck.

Do you really want to save trees anyway? Here's what you do instead... vote. Don't vote for eco-nazis, but vote for people who want to legalize marijuana.

WHAT?!

Governments are stupid. They can't tell the difference between hemp and marijuana. They're similar, but hemp won't get you high. Hemp is much more fibrous, and can be used in all sorts of wonderful ways. It can be used to make clothing, although it really isn't a better alternative to cotton. It can be woven to make a sturdy rope. Its best use is as paper pulp. It works just as well as wood, but a crop of hemp has a much greater yield of paper pulp per acre. And snowy owls don't live in hemp stalks.

Quote and statistics from "All the Trouble in the World" by P.J. O'Rourke


Don't Recycle

Post 2

Hersh

Hmmmnnnn.. So many issues touched on here. Thing is we are doing so many bad things to so many diverse bits of the planet and the ones we tend to focus on tend to be those affect us, humans. Hardly a holistic approach.. yet I digress.

Firstly 100 tonnes of recyled paper and 40 tonnes of toxic ink is better than 100 tonnes of waste paper and 40 tonnes of toxic ink...

Second, its kind of naive to see paper plantations as a natural environment. There is little or no diversity in age or species and it makes a poor habitat, often non-native trees are introduced for plantations which are less suitable for the native wildlife and can irrepairable damage the soil (e.g. conifer planting on traditional deciduous woodland in the UK leading to the soil turning acidic and minimal wildlife). Don't be mislead that just because its a woodland that its environmentally sound. It produces oxygen, yes, but again that is looking at things from a purely a human perspective and there is more to the world than us.

Third, its pretty difficult to produce anything without some level of pollution. Thing is, whilst its taken for granted that heavy production industry will pollute, people look to recyling as something that will atone for all that sin. Sorry, this is the world we choose to live in, we all buy the stuff and we all create waste. If our present solutions aren't as successful as we would like then look to yourself and call for a sea change in our lifestyles, priorities and financial systems. Simply pointing out flaws in one reasonably successful approach and saying "So we shouldn't bother" ain't cutting the mustard with me fella.....


Don't Recycle

Post 3

Crescent

In the UK the main recycling place for most bits and bobs (according to The New Scientist) is down Kent way. So if you are good and recycling in Scotland it could be being packed onto a big lorry and driven down the M6, not so enviromentally friendly, in fact the article basically says it wastes more than it saves.....
BCNU - Crescent


Don't Recycle

Post 4

Blatherskite the Mugwump - Bandwidth Bandit

Hersh: You are mislead. 100 tons of newspaper produces 40 tons of sludge and 60 tons of recycled paper. Horribly inefficient, isn't it? Then there's all the energy required to seperate the sludge, and the energy expended to collect it and get it to the plant, and then distribute it.

Trees planted for the purpose of producing wood aren't housing anyone, because there's always people tramping about and cutting down their neighbors. Those woods are already lost ecologically, and it makes no sense to consider them anything but a crop. However, you failed to address my main point, which is that with a cash crop of hemp, the trees could be ignored by man, and the snowy owls could move back in.

"people look to recyling as something that will atone for all that sin" - You said it all right there, brother. People recycle not because it is the right thing to do, but because they feel guilty and want to do something positive about it. The intentions are good, but remember, "the road to Hell is paved with good intentions." There are so many ways that people are making things worse in the effort to make things better, that it may not be a bad idea to get out of the ecology business altogether and let nature take care of itself. It is so much better at it than we are.


Don't Recycle

Post 5

Hersh

Yeah granted. I don't really disagree with anything you've said Colonel but there there is so much inter-related and conflicting stuff to consider in an argument like this. I've got nothing against the use of hemp as a natural fibre. Takes up less space in fields and very strong. I agree that recycling also is more effective in reducing guilt than reducing waste and pollution, but that's not to say that these techniques and practises can't be refined. Just like Cresent said about the recycling plants being on Kent; a bit of forward thinking relocation backed by some governemnt green tax breaks and we're starting to make progress. I'm not sure its time to give up all hope just yet...

btw re: my inability to take 40 from 100... I did A-level maths once you know. My teacher must be hanging her head in shame. But I think the points still valid (i.e. 60 tonnes recycled paper + 40 tonnes ink vs 60 tonnes waste paper + 40 tonnes ink)?


Please DO RECYCLE

Post 6

patriciaij


Hi Hersh
Good article - you're so right. We can all nitpick about what's good, what's bad and who's right or wrong but the bottom line is that everyone must make some effort to "Reduce, Reuse, Recycle" as we say here in Canada. It's easy to be complacent about the garbage we create as long as it's being dumped somewhere else. The NIMBY syndrome!
Here in Vancouver everyone makes SOME effort. I live in an apartment in the city and every building has recycling bins for different types of papers and containers. BC has a litter deposit on all drink containers (up to $1 on some milk bottles), so people tend to take them back. And even the ones that do end up in the garbage or on the street are rescued by street people - affectionately known as "Dumpster Divers" who then cash them in for the deposit.
A couple of years ago I saw a touring show on recycling and I was amazed at the stuff they make out of recycled goods. I found out that polar fleece material, which is so popular for outdoor clothing is made from recycled pop bottles. Plastics also come back as garden furniture.
Glass is recycled into glasphalt for resurfacing roads. Rubber can come back as functional and decorative ground surfacing for playgrounds, patios etc.
As for hemp, it's a great idea but not completely practical. When I worked at a pulp mill it was explained to me that different trees create different types of paper -apparently they have different fibres - longer, shorter, thicker, thinner, stronger, weaker - and different kinds of chips are blended to create different pulp/paper. Hence, toilet paper that doesn't feel like a cardboard box!
I am by not by any stretch of the imagination, an environmentalist, but I think it would be great if everyone did just one earth-friendly thing every day. Soon it would become a habit and everyone would benefit smiley - smiley
One simple thing people here do is use canvas shopping bags for groceries. Safeway even sells them for a couple of dollars - then you never have to use the plastic bags!
You're right - with forward thinking and government backing we can make progress. We also need to make individual effort.


Please DO RECYCLE

Post 7

K.Wolf - Minister of Fun & Creative & Performing Arts; unidentified security gard at H2G2 spacecentre; Dj at oj's; EU Gates exer

I quite agree with you! I only wisch that the brits were as caring as you Canadians!!

Oh well we will just have to keep sloging away with the debates!!


Please DO RECYCLE

Post 8

patriciaij


Hello King Wolf
I would guess from your bio on your home page that you are still in high school. How about starting a recycling group in your school? Not necessarily to collect stuff but to raise awareness of how people can do their bit for the environment. Maybe write a recycling article for the school newspaper. I did a quick search on google.com and there are lots of recycling sites. This one looks like it would have lots of info, and #9 is specific to the UK. www.100toprecyclingsites.com Check if your school recycles its printer and copier cartridges. I know Canon and Hewlett Packard provide a free service where you just toss your cartridge back in the box and send it back to them - they even provide mailing labels AND pay the postage! This may seem like a small thing but think how many printer/copier cartridges must get tossed out in a nation of 70 million people! I truly think it's a matter of individuals starting to think about doing things differently. We really can't rely on government to do ANYTHING quickly and while we wait we'll be up to our eyeballs in waste! Give it a shot - be proactive and maybe Brits WILL become as caring as Canadians smiley - smiley


Please DO RECYCLE

Post 9

K.Wolf - Minister of Fun & Creative & Performing Arts; unidentified security gard at H2G2 spacecentre; Dj at oj's; EU Gates exer

Hi there Medusa!

Thanks for checking my home page! Yeah I am at high school. I was at one time in the school's enviroment group. But people lost intrest and was taking up at lot of my time as the teacher that was running it wanted me to do everything on computer! At the time the school didn't have internet connection (it was on windows 3.1 infact)! But your idea over printer cartaridges is a good one I will see whether I can convert my IT teacher to my point of veiw.

Got to go

The Kingwolf


Please DO RECYCLE

Post 10

Sho - employed again!

I live in Germany and they're pretty much into the recycling thing (so much so that they are now having problems recycling stuff quickly enough).
The problem is that people think along these lines: buy stuff, recycle the rubbish. What we should be thinking is: buy stuff with the least amount of packaging, recycle the (not much) rubbish. Preferably: think if you need stuff, buy stuff....etc etc. In Germany, as well as taking back old batteries, shops are obliged to provide bins so that you don't have to take packaging home with you. It is quite common at the supermarket to see people go to the bin, take the plastic pack of cornflakes out of the box and put the box in the paper recycling bin. And so on. Manufacturers finally got the toothpaste message (I don't know about anywhere else, but here the tubes are sold without a box) so why not with other stuff. And pre-packed veg....aarrgghhh! Just about all bottles here have a deposit (even 1.5 ltr water bottles) - but again, you have to think where the re-useable bottles are going. Maybe it's better to give the plastic to a (relatively) local fleece manufacturer than have it trucked 500kms back to the bottling plant.
Nag governments (seriously) about public transport. Car sharing etc is ok, but how often do you (seriously now) get to and leave the office at the same time. 4 people co-ordinate something like that? forget it. Recycling and not damaging the planet has to be made as easy and effortless as possible (plus give some big companies the opportunity to make loads of money out of it) before it is really going to become a way of life.
I could go on and on (I live in a small village, the public transport thing is a big problem for me) but I won't. Please feel free to visit my page and say hi though, I'll rant at you there!! smiley - smiley


Please DO RECYCLE

Post 11

patriciaij


Good point about overpackaging and thinking "do I really need it?" I don't know about there but here the big motto is "Reduce, Re-Use, Recycle". Many of our large grocery stores have bulk food sections where you can buy everything from spices to dog biscuits from big bins. You still end up using a plastic bag but it's much less packaging than the brand name products on the shelves.
An interesting car thing that we have here in Vancouver is an auto co-op. The network owns a fleet of vehicles that are parked around the city. When a person wants to use a car, they book it out for a small daily rate and mileage fee. The co-op covers the cost of insurance, maintenance etc. People only book a car out when they need it and use alternate transportation methods the rest of the time. It's a great idea that saves people the huge capital outlay for a car and it helps the environment too! You can check it out at www.cooperativeauto.net It works in Vancouver because our climate is good year round, so cycling or walking are always options.
Unfortunately, that's not the case in the rest of Canada - winter is long and COLD. As well, everything is so far apart and public transit is so non-existent, that a vehicle is a necessity - not a luxury. I know people who commute over 200 km every day. And with the price of gas these days, I'm sure they're wondering if it's worthwhile! By the time the tax department and the gas station have finished with them it might be better to stay home!
Will people and politicians get on board with this before we totally trash the earth?? Some days I'm not too optimistic smiley - sadface


Please DO RECYCLE

Post 12

Sho - employed again!

I drive 123 kms to work everyday, and am caught in the classic trap: can't afford not to work, can't afford to move closer..... so I live in a place with no public transport. My husband goes to work before I get home, so we need 2 cars (until he gets fit enough to cycle, although with the roads round here I'm not sure I like him cycling home in the dark)
Here you can buy cloth carrier bags from supermarkets, when they're no longer useable some shops replace them free of charge. Also they do a lot of recycling of road surfaces etc (which is something most people have no idea about) and try generally only to use new materials when it is necessary.
From what I remember of my life in England (long ago) the weigh'n'save places took off, which were good because there wasn't pre-packaged stuff, but they were popular because of their money saving potential - the planet friendly aspect was just a bonus smiley - smiley
I'm depressed about the state of the planet these days - but we can't give up (especially if we have kids) ..................


Please DO RECYCLE

Post 13

K.Wolf - Minister of Fun & Creative & Performing Arts; unidentified security gard at H2G2 spacecentre; Dj at oj's; EU Gates exer

Or of couarse u r a kid like me!!!!!!


Please DO RECYCLE

Post 14

Sho - employed again!

Only on the inside! smiley - smiley I'm old enough to be your mum, so.... eat your greens and do your homework now, young man. And then you can take the bottles down the bottle bank. Please.


Please DO RECYCLE

Post 15

PQ

Re: Paper recycling

I visited a paper recycling plant in south wales were they use waste paper to create things other than recycled paper. Making paper is an awful process (if you don't beleive me go past the paper mill in Ellesmere Port and tell me its a credit to the planet) and recycled paper uses almost double the chemicals of un recycled paper to get it smooth and clean and white again. I would never ever ever buy recycled writing paper unless it was obviously not treated with masses of chemicals (ie it looks a bit rough)

However this is not all bad news...ALL (and I repeat ALL) toilet paper is made using recylced paper as some component - the cheaper your bogroll the better for the planet it is. The more expensive loo rolls don't tell you it is recycled because consumers don't equate recycled with luxury. This means that the majority of loo roll used in offices and other public loos is almost 100% recycled already - the people buying it just don't realise. I do admit I buy the 100% recycled loo roll as it costs the same as the other stuff and I think it is just as nice (plus 100% recycled beats 90% any day).
Secondly - tha factory I visited did not make the majority of it's money from loo roll - they had started research into reusing paper fibres as an asbestos replacement and it was working - their paper products are now used to prevent concrete cancer in your local multi storey carpark, insulate new buildings and best of all...

as snow in films - yup instead of using ground marble (as in Dr ZHIVAGO) - all movies now use a recycled paper product to replicate snow (and they have all different type - stuff for falling, blizzards, sitting on the ground, snowballs etc etc).


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