h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

1. We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.
2. We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam's transgression.
3. We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.
4. We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ: second, Repentance: third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins: fourth, Laying on of Hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.
5. We believe that aman must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands, by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.
6. We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers evangelists, etc.
7. We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, etc.
8. We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.
9. We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.
10. We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (The New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon this earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.
11. We claim the privilage of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilage, let them worship how, where, or what they may.
12. We believein being subject to Kings, Presidents, Rulers, and Magistrates in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.
13. We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul - We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.

So do you not believe the Bible when it says that all those things will be done away with?

And how do you reconcile 'the doing of good to all men' with going to war and killing men?

On the first point, what biblical text are you quoting? Mormons believe that God is unchanging and all-powerful, so if those Spiritual Gifts existed before, they exist now.

How does any Christian reconcile war with their religion? God recognises the need to defend yourself from oppression. Few would argue against the need to fight Hitler and the Nazis.

members of the mormon church say that they are christins whot hypocrisy.
How can you be followers of Christ true or otherwise when you will willingly go to war?
One of Jesus' commandments is "Love your enemy as you love yourself." Ho w on earth can you claim to be true christians when you are totally willing to break one of Jesus' commandments
Would you be as willing and prepared to pick up arms and turn them on fellow mormons I very much doubt it and yet you are prepared to go to war. You ARE hypocrits. A true Christian connot be a hypocrite.

Then all of the Christian Western World are hypocrits for defending themselves against Hitler in WW2. Which includes ALL the Chirstians of all denominations who fought against this evil. I presume you count yourself as a Christian.

In May 1940, the British army were trapped on the beaches of Dunkirk. Had they have been destroyed there would have been no-one to defend Britain from immediate invasion.

King George decalared Sunday 16th May to be a National Day of prayer, for deliverence of Britain and its army.

3 things happened:

i) The German army inexplicably stopped its advance in order to "rest"
ii) localized thunderstorms in the Low Countries and Germany prevented the Luftwaffe from bombing the army to oblivion.
iii) The English Channel became extraordinarily calm, and allowed the fleet of small boats to evacuate the army.

Heavenly Father heard the prayers of the righteous and intervened on their behalf. I repeat, if righteous men had not defended their land, their familiesd, their loved ones from the evil tyranny of the Nazi's then the you and I would not be free to worship our Lord in the manner wechoose. You owe them a debt for giving you the freedom you enjoy today.

From many standpoints it seems right to have fought the Nazis, but Jesus was consistently anti-religion. He allowed himself to be crucified instead of fighting. Plus we have the commandments..

This is indeed a hypocrisy in Christianity perhaps.

My view is that, yes in the real world non-pacifists will take advantage over those who refuse to fight. But if we all refused to fight there would be no war. Perhaps someone has to start the ball rolling, as it were.

Christians were martyred by many peoples for refusing to give up their faith. Even if the end result of Christian non-violence is invasion and suppression, you have the courage of your convictions.

Sorry that should read Jesus was consistently anti violence.

I was quoting 1 Corinthians 13:8, "whether there are [gifts of] prophesying, they will be done away with"


The simple answer is, a true christian doesn't. We'll leave fighting to the governments, without whom the war would not exist in the first place.

What scriptures have always had a bearing on the attitude of true Christians toward participation in carnal warfare?

Matt. 26:52: "Jesus said to him: 'Return your sword to its place, for all those who take the sword will perish by the sword.'" (Could there have been any higher cause for which to fight than to safeguard the Son of God? Yet, Jesus here indicated that those disciples were not to resort to weapons of physical warfare.)

Isa. 2:2-4: "It must occur in the final part of the days that the mountain of the house of Jehovah will become firmly established above the top of the mountains . . . And he will certainly render judgment among the nations and set matters straight respecting many peoples. And they will have to beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning shears. Nation will not lift up sword against nation, neither will they learn war anymore." (Individuals out of all nations must personally decide what course they will pursue. Those who have heeded Jehovah's judgment give evidence that he is their God.)

2 Cor. 10:3, 4: "Though we walk in the flesh, we do not wage warfare according to what we are in the flesh. For the weapons of our warfare are not fleshly, but powerful by God for overturning strongly entrenched things." (Paul here states that he never resorted to fleshly weapons, such as trickery, high-sounding language, or carnal weapons, to protect the congregation against false teachings.)

Luke 6:27, 28: "I [Jesus Christ] say to you who are listening, Continue to love your enemies, to do good to those hating you, to bless those cursing you, to pray for those who are insulting you."

Is it not true that Jehovah allowed ancient Israel to engage in warfare?

Jehovah directed ancient Israel to use warfare to take possession of the land that he himself designated as their inheritance and to execute people whose depraved practices and defiance of the true God caused Jehovah to view them as being no longer fit to live. (Deut. 7:1, 2, 5; 9:5; Lev. 18:24, 25) Nevertheless, mercy was shown to Rahab and to the Gibeonites because they demonstrated faith in Jehovah. (Josh. 2:9-13; 9:24-27) In the Law covenant God laid down rules for warfare that he would approve, stipulating exemptions and the manner in which this warfare was to be carried out. Such were truly holy wars of Jehovah. That is not true of the carnal warfare of any nation today.

With the establishing of the Christian congregation, a new situation came into existence. Christians are not under the Mosaic Law. Christ's followers were to make disciples of people of all nations; so worshipers of the true God would in time be found in all those nations. However, what is the motive of those nations when they go to war? Is it to carry out the will of the Creator of all the earth or is it to further some nationalistic interest? If true Christians in one nation were to go to war against another nation, they would be fighting against fellow believers, against people who prayed for help to the same God that they did. Appropriately, Christ directed his followers to lay down the sword. (Matt. 26:52) He himself, glorified in the heavens, would henceforth carry out the execution of those who showed defiance of the true God and His will.-2 Thess. 1:6-8; Rev. 19:11-21.

As to serving in the armed forces, what does secular history disclose about the attitude of early Christians?

"A careful review of all the information available goes to show that, until the time of Marcus Aurelius [Roman emperor from 161 to 180 C.E.], no Christian became a soldier; and no soldier, after becoming a Christian, remained in military service."-The Rise of Christianity (London, 1947), E. W. Barnes, p. 333.

"We who were filled with war, and mutual slaughter, and every wickedness, have each through the whole earth changed our warlike weapons,-our swords into ploughshares, and our spears into implements of tillage,-and we cultivate piety, righteousness, philanthropy, faith, and hope, which we have from the Father Himself through Him who was crucified."-Justin Martyr in "Dialogue With Trypho, a Jew" (2nd century C.E.), The Ante-Nicene Fathers (Grand Rapids, Mich.; reprint of 1885 Edinburgh edition), edited by A. Roberts and J. Donaldson, Vol. I, p. 254.

"They refused to take any active part in the civil administration or the military defence of the empire. . . . it was impossible that the Christians, without renouncing a more sacred duty, could assume the character of soldiers, of magistrates, or of princes."-History of Christianity (New York, 1891), Edward Gibbon, pp. 162, 163.

What scriptures have always had a bearing on the attitude of true Christians toward involvement in political issues and activities?

John 17:16: "They are no part of the world, just as I [Jesus] am no part of the world."

John 6:15: "Jesus, knowing they [the Jews] were about to come and seize him to make him king, withdrew again into the mountain all alone." Later, he told the Roman governor: "My kingdom is no part of this world. If my kingdom were part of this world, my attendants would have fought that I should not be delivered up to the Jews. But, as it is, my kingdom is not from this source."-John 18:36.

Jas. 4:4: "Adulteresses, do you not know that the friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever, therefore, wants to be a friend of the world is constituting himself an enemy of God." (Why is the matter so serious? Because, as 1 John 5:19 says, "the whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one." At John 14:30, Jesus referred to Satan as being "the ruler of the world." So, no matter what worldly faction a person might support, under whose control would he really come?)

Jesus allowed himself to be crucified because that was what was required to fulfill his Mission on earth, to atone for and die for our sins.

When the circumstances were necessary, Jesus used force to purge the temple, upturning tables and driving out the moneychangers by flaying a whip.

You shouldn't trade words with the Gentiles on this.

Nothing in these replies is not already in the public domain!

These people only want to attack the Church that should be apparent to anyone who engages in conversation with them.

We should not cast Pearls before swine and the individuals who are just antagonists will not be educated or changed.

However any right-minded person who has either been mis-informed or just mis-understands the LDS Church, but is seeking for Truth may find some clarification in some of the answers.

In other words it is for the wider audience than the peeping wizards.

You could say we want to attack 'the Church'. Or you could say that we want to defend Gods name against those who would spread false information about him. And when you're effectively saying that God approves of mans wars, Gods name must be defended.

We have never said God "approves of man's wars", (though it is the most common tactic to claim that the Church has said something or has done something that it has not),

What God does is recognize that man has a right to defend himself from the perpetrators of evil and carnage. God is all-powerful and all knowing. Quaint as the idea is, He does not need defending from us. Indeed the Lord Jesus Christ is the head of The LDS Church. He guides and directs it though a Prophet Ordained of God. It is in fact the ONLY Church on the earth that has the authority given to it by God.

I never said you had - I said you had effectively said it, that is, that you imply it. Because you did say this:



If you say your church has authority given to it by God, you are implying that God approves of your church. If someone believes that your church has God-given authority, they will likely see your church as a spokesman for God. And your church is willing to go to war, or at least all it's individual members that I have so far met have been.

But something else - I have seen it quoted from Joseph Smith that "As man now is, God once was, and as God now is, man may become." That is something that has definitely been said, and both God and Jesus would surely be offended by the idea that God was once an imperfect being like us.

So now even though you ackowledge I never said "God approves of our wars"..... I "effectively" said it.....Hmmm....Yes, as I said, ".. it is the most common tactic to claim that the Church has said something or has done something that it has not". Thank you for not disappointing us!!!!

Yes the LDS Church is God's Church. It bears the name of Jesus Christ in its title "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints"

Yes it is approved of by Jesus. The Prophet, Gordon B. Hinkley is called and ordained of God. He is a wonderful, kind, loving man and he is no war mongerer.

(You can get more of his words and counsel on www.lds.org)

Many of the men who fought and died in the Second World War, saving it from tyranny were also wonderful, kind, loving men. I wonder how your arguments that such a war should never have been fought would go down with the relatives of those who died in, and those who survived, the concentration camps. Should we have left them to their fate? Should the world have stood by and let it happen? Please do not to address you answer to me but to those I have mentioned above.

Yes Joseph Smith said what he said, and he and the Church make no apology for it. Clearly it is an idea you personally have difficulty with, but I would hazard a guess that a man who was called as a prophet to restore the Gospel and establish the Lord's Church, who has been administerd to by angels, and has seen and talked with Jesus Christ and Heavenly Father, will have a little bit more spiritual insight and understanding than your average student of theology.

So now even though you ackowledge I never said "God approves of our wars"..... I "effectively" said it.....Hmmm....Yes, as I said, ".. it is the most common tactic to claim that the Church has said something or has done something that it has not". Thank you for not disappointing us!!!!

Yes the LDS Church is God's Church. It bears the name of Jesus Christ in its title "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints"

Yes it is approved of by Jesus. The Prophet, Gordon B. Hinkley is called and ordained of God. He is a wonderful, kind, loving man and he is no war mongerer.

(You can get more of his words and counsel on www.lds.org)

Many of the men who fought and died in the Second World War, saving it from tyranny were also wonderful, kind, loving men. I wonder how your arguments that such a war should never have been fought would go down with the relatives of those who died in, and those who survived, the concentration camps. Should we have left them to their fate? Should the world have stood by and let it happen? Please do not to address you answer to me but to those I have mentioned above.

Yes Joseph Smith said what he said, and he and the Church make no apology for it. Clearly it is an idea you personally have difficulty with, but I would hazard a guess that a man who was called as a prophet to restore the Gospel and establish the Lord's Church, who has been administerd to by angels, and has seen and talked with Jesus Christ and Heavenly Father, will have a little bit more spiritual insight and understanding than your average student of theology.

Gentiles? Are you jewish?