h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Being a Latter Day Saint, I find that I spend most of my time being occupied with bettering myself, trying to live a Christ-like life, teaching my children the gospel. I study the scriptures and pray for guidance. I just don't have time to seek out all those that believe differently to myself and researching arguments against their beliefs. Nor, should I hasten to add, would I want to, because a fundamental belief in our church is that we allow everybody else the right to worship God as they would want - the same right we claim for ourselves. So I am just fascinated by the time and effort some people here are spending in trying to prove the wrongness of my beliefs....

Like nearly all of us - your actual religion is most probably an inheritance from your parents. Hating other people, or assuming that they are wrong (evil?) because their parents were taught something different is something that I suspect you would reject very strongly.

The most important things about religion are the things they have in common. The real differences between religions are mostly either utterly inconsequential, or else honest mistakes (for which our Heavenly Father is, I suspect, quite prepared to forgive us).

I believe there is one GOD. Different faiths may have all kinds of name for HIM, and believe all kinds of things about HIM. Some, perhaps all, of these different beliefs may have some kind or degree of truth in them, but they are all short of the absolute truth about GOD because that is beyond our comprehension. If HE were not HE would hardly be worth worth our worship.

I believe that GOD wants us to try to be better people - and to treat other people as we would like them to treat us. All religions teach something like this.

If you believe these two things then I think GOD will forgive you for being a Mormon, in fact I doubt if he seriously cares one way or the other - even if, as has been objectively been proven many times, Joseph Smith and Bringham Young WERE basically lying rogues, and the Book of Mormon IS a meaningless mixture of quotes from the Bible, Shakepeare etc. combined with a synopsis of a novel published in the 1820s. (To summarise the real case for "anti-mormonism").

Where in the Book of Mormon does it Quote Shakepeare?

Jesus said that those who worshipped him would worship with spirit and truth, therefore it IS important to know which view is the truth.
If all religions were leading to God, then Jesus would not have said that 'narrow and cramped is the road leading to everlasting life, and few are the ones finding it'.

I am a Latter Day Saint girl living in Salt Lake City, Utah, i really do live here, the reason I come here is because I founbd it a long time ago while looking at Harry Potter stuff, and thought it'd be interesting to look up Mormons. Well anyways, there is a really high anti-mormon rate as well as the rate of mormons here, so I am often hurt by those anti-mormons, they are always very wrong, they make stuff up about our religion all the time. And just because our early church leaders (some of them) were polygamist, doesn't make EVERYONE in our church polygamist. Besides, Wilford Woddruff addresses the Mainfesto whixch pretty much got rid of polygamy in our religion. Anti-Mormonism will always be a problem, but dont believe any of the crazy stuff you hear! it's not true! it's Satan!!!! He tempts peoplwe to do it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And what about the idea that 'As God now is, man may become' from the Book of Mormon (or perhaps that written set of other Mormon beliefs)? Is that not what Satan tempted people to believe, in the Garden of Eden?

Does a man have the capability to learn and grow in this life?

In learning and growing spiritually does he not become closer to God? Can a man become more Christ-like in his thoughts and actions?

Even if a man becomes more like Jesus Christ and our Heavenly Father in minute, infinitessimally small steps, if the process continues for eternity he will eventually be as God.

If you believe in life after death then this concept should not be a problem for you

But it wasn't just speaking about ones personality, because it said just before that, "As man now is, God once was". But God was never a sinner, nor was he ever mortal. He is the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end.

I believe it was from a discourse by Joseph Smith. It is not from the Book of Mormon.

I only picked up on your question about the second part of the quote 'As God now is, man may become' rather than the 'As man now is God once was' part.

However, extending my first reply - we have the capacity to progress and grow and be more like God. If that process continues for eternity we do indeed become as God.

So people who were once on the earth as mortal sinners, progress to become Gods, have spirit children of their own, create worlds for their children to live in mortality and be tested, that they may grow and progress....if so for us if we were to become God's, why not for our Heavenly Father?

We as humans have a lot of difficulty understanding the concept of eternity. Many people who reject religion do so becaue of their unanswered question "If God created the Universe, who made God?". Is there another explanation?

I believe it was from a discourse by Joseph Smith. It is not from the Book of Mormon.

I only picked up on your question about the second part of the quote 'As God now is, man may become' rather than the 'As man now is God once was' part.

However, extending my first reply - we have the capacity to progress and grow and be more like God. If that process continues for eternity we do indeed become as God.

So people who were once on the earth as mortal sinners, progress to become Gods, have spirit children of their own, create worlds for their children to live in mortality and be tested, that they may grow and progress....if so for us if we were to become God's, why not for our Heavenly Father?

We as humans have a lot of difficulty understanding the concept of eternity. Many people who reject religion do so becaue of their unanswered question "If God created the Universe, who made God?". Is there another explanation?

The point is, the whole idea of people becoming gods wasn't suggested by God or Jesus. It was only ever suggested by Satan. And if, as you say, Gods spirit children were supposed to come down and live in mortality, why was it said in the Bible that they had forsook their natural dwelling place when they came down?

As for 'who made God', the simple answer is that God has always existed. After all, it has been shown scientifically that time is a part of our universe. Since God created the universe, he created time and is therefore outside of time, so there is no such thing as 'before God existed'.

Basically, what basis did Joseph have for stating that men could become gods, or indeed, any of the other things he stated? He had no prophecies or miracles to back him up, and yet he said things that hadn't been told before.

The idea is from Jesus Christ that men become Gods. There are numerours references to this concept in the Bible:

John 10:34
Rom 8:17
2Cor 3:18
Eph 4:13

Modern Revelation in the Book of Mormon & the Doctrine & Covenant makes these concepts far clearer, which is the point of having them.

It is Satan that would have us believe that we do not have devine potential. He is after all out to thwart Heavenly Father's plan as best he can, and lead as many as he can away from the truth.

John 10:34, "Is it not written in your law, 'I said: "You are gods"'?
This is in the present tense not the future. Also, in the next verse, Jesus points out that the ones being called gods are those against whom the word of God came. Is it logical, therefore, to believe that 'god' is meant is the absolute, divine sense of the word, or in the metaphorical sense that a person who rules over someone can be said to be their god?

Romans 8:17 states that we are heirs of God. Standing to inherit something from God does not imply that we are to become equal to him.

2 Cor 3:18 says (again, in the present tense) that we are transformed into the image of God. It seems that the very use of the word image suggests that we will not actually become gods (although the only mention here of God is specific - there is no reference to 'gods' in general anyway)

Eph 4:13 I'm in a rush now, but this seems to say nothing about becoming gods, just attaining to oneness in the faith and in knowledge.

Your previous post argued that time is measured only unto Man and that God created time. Therefore the tense in which the Lord speaks is purely a matter of semantics.

John 10 33-35

33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for ablasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken

In the Jewish Law it is recognised that we are children of God and have devine potential.


Rom 8 16-17
16 The Spirit itself beareth awitness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; aheirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we bsuffer with him, that we may be also glorified together

Offspring of elephants grow up to be elephants, kittens grow up to be cats. Presumably Children of Gods can grow up to be Gods. Notice in verse 17 "joint-heirs with Christ". As we acknowledge christ's divinity, this is a pretty powerful statement.

2Cor3:18
18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

We are changed to match the the glory of God evn to be like the Lord. I do not really see your point here.

Eph 4:13
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

This is pretty categoric - coming into the unity of faith and knowledge we can become the perfect man, even to the same measure of the stature of Christ.

(The biblical quotes are from the King James version of the Bible)

We could scripture-bash for the rest of eternity, but it will gain us nothing. If you want to know the truth then you need to ask Heavenly Father in humble and sincere prayer, with a desire to know the Truth and a willingness to accept the Truth even if you are surprised by the answer. Is the Book of Mormon a true book of scripture? Was Joseph Smith a Prophet? Is Gordon B Hinkley a prophet on the earth today?

Farewell, my friend. I wish you well.

John 10:35 refers says that the statement was made to 'those AGAINST whom the word of God came.' These people were not true followers of God. Yet, you say that they were going to be gods. Surely you don't believe that everyone, even those who disobey God, are going to become gods?
Because organic life forms grow up to be the same as their parents, why should it be the same with spirit life, and with almighty God, of which more or less by definition there can be only one.
As for being joint-heirs with Christ, Christ is still inferior to God. And while it is true that some will go to heaven and be in a position similar to Christ, this is not the general purpose of mankind or there would have been no real need for the Earth. (Except to find the ultimate question of course)
As you say, we can become the perfect man. But what does this have to do with becoming a god?
When you pray to God, he isn't going to answer you with a voice in your head. If you think that analysing the scriptures will gain you nothing, there's not going to be much of a reply to your prayers, because you're not really listening to the words God has already spoken.

Nothing but the spirit can convert anyone.

Analysing the scriptures does help - bashing them - ie finding differences with someones interpteration of them to suit one's own position does not. This is exactly why Joseph Smith was inspired to pray about which of all the different Churches to join (He was inclind towards the Methodists), because the preachers from different Churches gave completely different interpretations of the same passages of scripture. He Read in James chpt 1:

5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him

The answer he received is what we refer to as the First Vision.

No I do no believe that those who disobey God become Gods. That is dependent on faithfulness and obedience to the commandments. Nonetheless the potential is there.

When you pray to God He can answer your prayers in many ways. One of those ways IS by the still small voice in your head, being the whisperings of the Holy Ghost. It may also be a swelling in the bosom, a good feeling, or a strong impression. He does not oblige sign-seekers who say "I will believe when I see a sign". Signs follow those who first believe.

I was converted to the Church of Jesus Christ of the Latter Day Saints 5 years ago. I have no parents or relatives in this church. And unlike anti-mormons people say have no obligations to anybody to keep going to this church and is absolutely free in my decision. I can leave any time I want and do what I want. The problem is that I don't want to do that. Why? Because I have been blessed by my Heavenly Father so many times and He showed to me that this church is true tons of times by now. I know with all my being what I want. I want to come unto Christ!!! And I found the way!!!! Do you know that there are many more churches that use the Book of Mormon besides us? Even though they don't know the whole thing they recieved a revolation that this book is true. It is as famous as the Bible now. Almost everybody knows that. Do you think that it could happen if it was not from God?
Now about trying to tear up our faith. OH Guys, there are so many problems on the earth. So many people who need help, children who need food,aid caryers that need a medical invention. So much to study and achieve!!! So many family responsibilities etc. And you just see hear on the internet doing your bla-bla-bla about my church and wasting your time. You are able to do much better and smarter things than just this. Belive in yourself and achieve. Study and serve!!!
As for your bla-bla-bla I don't have much time to read it. Today is an exception only. And many people are as busy as me. So...

Good luck you in finding hobbies, friends and service projects.
Tatiana.

I was converted to the Church of Jesus Christ of the Latter Day Saints 5 years ago. I have no parents or relatives in this church. And unlike anti-mormons people say have no obligations to anybody to keep going to this church and is absolutely free in my decision. I can leave any time I want and do what I want. The problem is that I don't want to do that. Why? Because I have been blessed by my Heavenly Father so many times and He showed to me that this church is true tons of times by now. I know with all my being what I want. I want to come unto Christ!!! And I found the way!!!! Do you know that there are many more churches that use the Book of Mormon besides us? Even though they don't know the whole thing they recieved a revolation that this book is true. It is as famous as the Bible now. Almost everybody knows that. Do you think that it could happen if it was not from God?
Now about trying to tear up our faith. OH Guys, there are so many problems on the earth. So many people who need help, children who need food,aid caryers that need a medical invention. So much to study and achieve!!! So many family responsibilities etc. And you just sit here on the internet doing your bla-bla-bla about my church and wasting your time. You are able to do much better and smarter things than just this. Belive in yourself and achieve. Study and serve!!!
As for your bla-bla-bla I don't have much time to read it. Today is an exception only. And many people are as busy as me. So...

Good luck you in finding hobbies, friends and service projects.
Tatiana.

I was converted to the Church of Jesus Christ of the Latter Day Saints 5 years ago. I have no parents or relatives in this church. And unlike anti-mormons people say have no obligations to anybody to keep going to this church and is absolutely free in my decision. I can leave any time I want and do what I want. The problem is that I don't want to do that. Why? Because I have been blessed by my Heavenly Father so many times and He showed to me that this church is true tons of times by now. I know with all my being what I want. I want to come unto Christ!!! And I found the way!!!! Do you know that there are many more churches that use the Book of Mormon besides us? Even though they don't know the whole thing they recieved a revolation that this book is true. It is as famous as the Bible now. Almost everybody knows that. Do you think that it could happen if it was not from God?
Now about trying to tear up our faith. OH Guys, there are so many problems on the earth. So many people who need help, children who need food,aid caryers that need a medical invention. So much to study and achieve!!! So many family responsibilities etc. And you just sit here on the internet doing your bla-bla-bla about my church and wasting your time. You are able to do much better and smarter things than just this. Belive in yourself and achieve. Study and serve!!!
As for your bla-bla-bla I don't have much time to read it. Today is an exception only. And many people are as busy as me. So...

Good luck you in finding hobbies, friends and service projects.
Tatiana.

I have been reading through these posts because I find religions other then my own fasinating. While I personally do not subscribe to the Mormon religion, I admire it. I have always had wonderful encounters and conversations with Mormons I have met out on their mission. As a group, I have seen an increased devotion to community and family. More so then in many other "Christian" religions I have witnessed. Mormons I have spoken to appear more tolerent of others as well. I am a Christian. I believe in God as Heavenly Father and Divine Creator of the universe. I believe we were made in His image and I know that if I had to meet the same kind of people day in and day out I would be bored stiff. I believe the Lord likes variety as much as His children do. He made us all: Catholic, Baptist, Mormon, Jew, Hindu, Etc. I think it is incredibly egotistical for any one religion to claim they have the distinction of being the only right religion. Stop judging others and enjoy the variety God made.