h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

No there isn't, next question?

As stated in the Jodie Foster film "CONTACT", ..."if there is,nt , it,s an awful waste of space".

How can you be so sure?

It is virtually impossible to prove that anything doesn't exist. How have you gone about to prove your statement?

/R the

watch this space !!!

before we try and figure out if there is life out there wouldn't it be a good idea to learn how to live together here on earth first and have you ever thought of reading the bible as a source of information as to discover if there is life out there after all it has proved very reliable and accurate in all the area's of life that it touches on also what good would it do us to find out if there is life out there once there was what is called the first world and good did it do to discover all the other countries in the world for history showes that we raped and pillaged and ware all over the world nearly 100 million murdered in war in the last centuary alone and now we want to find other worlds to do the same just how many global warmnings do we think the universe will take surely if there is life out there why would they want to have anything to do a race of people as depraved as us and if they were like us surely they would want to do us first what they have done to their own kind before we do it to them anyway back to the bible it definatly says that here is life out there non human life at that

below are some puncitation and capitals let you use them as you see fit,,,,,,,,,,.????''''!!!!!!!!!!!!222222222222222????.......,,,:::::::;LLLLLLLLLLLOOOOOOOOOOOKIIIIIIIJUUUHYYGTFRRRDEEEESWAQMJNHBGVFCCCCCDXSZA

Perhaps we could learn from our mistakes? If we can't we might as well just lie down and die.

Just out of curiosity; where in the bible does it say that there is life out there?

/R the

history shows that man definatly doesnot learn from his mistakes there have been enough gaffs made down through the centuries for man to have learned take the first nuclar bomb dropped during ww2 what did they do shortly after drop another is there nuclear bombs on the earth now did we learn and get rid of em did we heck i am at work now and will write soon again tonight in the bible books of daniel and acts and revelation aangels and spirit creatures referances later

bible referances

daniel 10:2-21 speaks of rank (prince of royal realm of persia, prince of greece v13 & 20)

daniel 7 :9-23 a 1000 1000 ministering and 10,000 times 10,000 standing standing before him ( v 10)

acts 7:5-6

revelation 1:1 channel of couminaction between hevan and earth
revelation 4: 1-11 thrones creatures speech proclamitions

john 4:24 description of God by Jesus

these and many more referances show that there is vibarant intelligant non human life out there

we are used of tv and films potraiting non human life in differant forms but it is good to keep in mind that the highest authority in the universe says in the bible that there is intellegant life out there and he uses it ( see ref. in daniel)

the fact that God does not use spaceships or does not behave in the manner that tv says extratisle life should behave in is in itself of no importance

although the bible book of Ezekiel gives a beautiful description of a symbolic vechical that he uses i have seen an artists impression of most or all of these (above and below mentioned referances) and they are pretty impressive ( Ezekiel 1:4-28)

yes life does exist out there ... but not as most people expect it infact it is far more beautiful and more peaceful than what we expect or deserave

i am off on holidays for a few days untill middle of next week

There better be, otherwise we have no use for a universe this big.. plus how are we here? if they arent?

I sounds as if you have absolutetly no faith in the human race, and with good reason.

As you say, when aliens (or "life out there") is mentioned I think of shiny spaceships and beings of the same ethereal place as ourselves. But all the beings mentioned in the bible are eaqually well suited to be called alien (mening "not of this place"). Also; as Arthus C Clark once said "Sufficently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic" (or miracles).

This thread started out with me asking for proof of the existence or absence of aliens. I'm afraid I don't count the Bible as absolute proof. I am reading it myself at the moment and I would love to believe every word of it but my scientific mind won't let me.

That is very human thinking: "What use is it to me?"
Why should it have a use at all, perhaps it isn't for us that the universe is here. Perhaps it is just a pretty picture?

What do you mean "How are we here"? Some say we were made and put here by [insert suitable deity here] whilst others say we evolved from primeaval sludge. I don't think either side can prove their theory conclusively.

Of course there is life out there. We are just a speck in the universe. In fact our whole galaxy is just one of who knows how many. It would be illogical and arrogant for us to assume that life only ever evolved on the planet Earth. They have found life in the deep dark depths of the ocean, living off thermal vents, where no one thought life would be. Life could be anywhere.

As for conclusive proof, one way or the other, I think science has the edge. Have you read any of Richard Dawkins' books?

"of course" is a bit of a strong expression, even though I agree that it's unlikely that we're alone.
I think Hoyle said that life is as likely to form as a freak hurrican is likely to assemble a jumbo jet from parts found in a junk yard. I'm not certain how much research went into the statement though.

/R the

you should read
(a) the bible God's word or mans historical and scientific information is presented to prove that the Bible is accurate, trustworthy, and inspired by God for mankind's benefit.
(b) life how did it get here by creation or eveloution
(c) is there a creator who cares for you we are in good company when asking, What caused the universe, our planet, and our life on it? And how does this relate to our finding a satisfying meaning in life?

if you look at the bible with an open mind you will find that you can believe it it is accurate historically in other words the people nations etc mentioned in it are shown by archology and history to have existed

it is accurate scientfically one time the most intelligent people on the earth said that it was flat yet the bible always stated that it was a sphere etc

read and believe

You might also try "In The Beginning" by Isaac Asimov. The biblical book of Genesis is explored from both the fundamentalist and the evolutionist point of view.

I once took a class that approached this scientifically.

I don't remember all the details but it went something like this.

Assume carbon-based life which requires water. No other paradigms have been seriously presented so far, and it is a place to start. You then require a class M planet no closer than x to its sun (or the water will boil) and no further than y (or the water will freeze).

As of the time I took the class ten years ago, no planets had been found around binary stars. So a given proportion of stars are single stars and not binary, and you take that fraction, let's say .40 for purposes of illustration, though I don't remember the real number.

You multiply that fraction times the fraction of planets that is within the given range, to make another number up let's say .40, so the odds of a likely planet are now .160 with only two requirements.

There is the imponderable of how exactly life DOES start... the professor seemed to favor lightning striking a pool of primordial ooze, as I recall...but passing on that for the moment, there is the matter that this life which MIGHT appear on .16, or 16%, of planets,
must at a stage of evolution which is capable of speaking to us.

I forget how we quantified this. Possibly we took the length of human history to date (4000 years say?) and divided it by the length of known biological history (400,000 years? I really don't remember the time scale of the dinosaurs but you get the idea and it keeps the numbers simple.).

Your odds of aliens are now 1.6%.

But it matters little if there are cavemen around Alpha Centauri. They sure as shooting aren't landing at Roswell or sending the kind of messages that SETI can detect.

So now for them to be in touch with us a technological civilization is required. So, since we are just barely in this ballpark ourselves you can take the time since the landing on the moon and divide that by the course of human history. what is that, 40 by 4000 equals .01?

Odds of flying saucers are now .016%

And I am sure I am omitting some requirements.... for example they must be close enough for a signal to be perceived or for a spaceship to survive the journey.... so the odds are very very much against the proposition that little green men are trying to talk to us. And I did not even attempt to quantify the probability of a puddle of mud becoming alive.

However.

There is a however. However tiny the order of magnitude for this probability becomes (and on this scale only the order of magnitude really matters) the thing is that when you are done you are going to apply it to an infinitely large universe.

So yes, it is possible. It just isn't probable.

The Drake formula does something very similar:
http://www.fellowship.net/jerrynixon/documents/theDrakeEquation.htm

Drake formula, thank you. I couldn't remember the name. I appreciate the reference.

But that's the wonderful and unique thing about out world. Life can really only exist in a small band of space around particular stars. Too far away you freeze, too close...well your planets a Mercury that wipes out any life like a autoclave(at least the sort that we understand as life). The planet size and angle to the sun are also important, too big the gravity is crushing, too small, like Mars, and it can't hold a decent atmosphere, and the angle controls the seasons, weather, and magnetic fields.

Now, in saying all that, there are countless stars out there, many of them (though far for a majority) are like ours. Not all stars have planets, but say most have at least a few...one still has to have the conditions that would make them right for life. And even then, it still has to have that first accident (if you believe in Evolution, and it is a belief system people) or a god who cares enough to make life. Pick and place your theory there.

So, you say, what about that stuff you said about "...at least the sort that we understand as life..." and that well may be true. Right here on this very planet even, we may be over looking some rock or puff of breeze that we don't know is life, but actually is. You may laugh at that idea, but is it really so far fetched to think there are non-carbon based life on this planet...one that is so rich in lifeforms...compared to some dusty rock in space?

In the end, such discussion is academic...Life, is where you find it.

Taralome, I read a book a few years ago that covered both sides of the arguement...it was a colony ship sent out to seek new places to live and hopefully otherlife forms...the arguements for their being life on other planets was of course hot topic number one on board...I would have mentioned it in several letters...I wonder if you can remind me of the title? If I think of it I'll mention it here, as I said, even though it is fiction, it covers both of these arguements very well.