h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

... and it seems to be more widespread amongst football "fans" that populate internet fora, radio phone-ins, etc.

http://www.football365.com/story/0,17033,8742_3389335,00.html

"The more there are teams like Bolton and the utterly inadequate Derby in the top flight it automatically devalues the division, making it less enjoyable for the majority. How many times have hearts sunk when the unattractive Bolton or the uncompetitive Derby appear on the fixture list?"

That whole article, and everything I've read that's been written by fans of top-half Premiership teams, is basically saying that if you're not one of the "big boys" then you're damaging the "EPL Brand" and as such shouldn't be allowed to play football in the top flight.

If this is really a prevailing view, I'm glad that we've got a few more years of "obscurity" ahead of us.

>>What does it say about the ambition of a club that they are prepared to suffer a season of humiliation and retreat to the Championship with full pockets?<<

Well perhaps that they might be able to invest in better players next year and come up again stronger?

How many teams have nearly gone bust in a futile attempt to 'compete' in the first season of promotion?

Good on Derby for being sensible with their dosh. It's a shame other teams haven't been more pragmatic about the whole thing.
Shabby season for their fans really but they'll be stronger next year for it I reckon.


That's a dreadful article. I'm a Liverpool fan and it doesn't represent my view.

I didn't think it would be the sort of view anyone sensible agreed with, but this is the sort of tripe that's being written for (mainly) armchair Liverpool, Manyoo, Arsenal and Chelsea fans - and they're the ones who spend all the money on Sky, Setanta, Chelsea TV, replica shirts, commemorative plates...

It is rubbish...

There is still a slim outside chance that Argyle could sneak into the playoffs. And I for one would welcome the chance to smash Derby's record for most goals conceded and lowest number of points....

the shoe's really on the other foot. here's an alternative interpretation of the presence of 4 english teams in the CL quarterfinals: the "big four" have such means at their disposition that not even the reals, bayerns and milans can keep up, so quid any domestic competition? the definition of an outsider is now "plucky little arsenal".

with 4 megaclubs trusting the top spots and the top money year after year, the rest of the league is left with avoiding relegation as an objective and competition is bound to wither.

attracting more billionnaires piecemeal is not a solution, only a pyramid game. thaksin, gaydamak and the nebula gravitating around spurs may evenually turn the big 4 into a big 5 or 6, but with every addition to the group of haves, the gulf with the havenots will widen, until there will no longer even be a semblance of mockery in the term "competition".

the "powers that be" (which can in no way be thought to include anyone at bolton or derby county) have to decide between having their pie or eating it. either institute rules to reduce their dominance (salary caps, homegrown quotas...) or forever hold their peace.

"here's an alternative interpretation of the presence of 4 english teams in the CL quarterfinals: the "big four" have such means at their disposition that not even the reals, bayerns and milans can keep up"

I'd never thought of it that way. It's bad enough with the super-rich stopping domestic leagues being competitive, but I'd not considered that they'd be able to impose the same monopoly on European competitions.

F365 seem to have handled the controversy about that article by ignoring it - today's mailbox has 9 mails about Manyoo, a handful on Cardiff, TWO saying that that article was crap (one Bolton fan, one Bristol and then this cracker:

"After reading Nick Miller's column I got thinking about how many teams in the Premier League wouldn't be missed and who I would have replace them in an ideal world. With all the debate lately of what constitutes a 'big club' I thought a league of the 20 'biggest' clubs would be a good place to start, and this is how it looked (believe me, this was a real struggle):

Manchester United
Chelsea
Arsenal
Liverpool
Everton
Newcastle United
Sunderland
Tottenham
Aston Villa
West Ham
Manchester City
Portsmouth
Blackburn Rovers
Leeds United
Wolverhampton Wanderers
Sheffield Wednesday
Nottingham Forest
West Bromich Albion
Ipswich Town
Sheffield United"

If that 20 team travesty (with no promotion/relegation) is ever put into effect, I'd ditch Elland Road for Altrincham or Leigh RMI.

(Looking at that again - Portsmouth a bigger/more popular/more successful team than Derby County?? Only in Skyland)

Wednesday AND Blades ?

Wonder where the author was from ?

Somewhere terrifying and bewildering by the sounds of it.

Sorry to butt in - I'm home and a little bored, you're the "most recent" convo...

That list included Sheffield United - at a pinch I could accept that. But Sheffield-Wednesday-Nil? - and they're my team. I'd substitute them with Middlesborough who are pretty good but not fashionable.

My own view, for what it's worth: I don't watch Premier League matches unless I can absolutely help it. I've watched the FA Cup Semi finals and will watch the final because it's such a blessed relief to see those teams in there.

I'll butt out again now.

I think Birmingham City fans might be aggrieved at having West Brom and Wolves placed ahead of them (they'd be well peeved at Villa, but they'd be wrong I think).
I'd certainly put them ahead of Ipswich in terms of fan base.

But one could argue about that list all day I think.

Sheffield Wednesday would be in my list of most supported clubs in the Enlgish leagues all day every day.
Just because they're having a hard time these days it doesn't stop them having a massive fan base.
They've yet to fall as low as Wolves manged to in the 80s.

"I don't watch Premier League matches unless I can absolutely help it. I've watched the FA Cup Semi finals and will watch the final because it's such a blessed relief to see those teams in there."

Same here Sho. In fact, that wound me up as well - Cardiff, a CCC side get to the FA Cup Final, there's a hoohaa because they're Welsh - what happens if they win? Beat Barnsley to get there - this year's giantkillers extraordinaire - the magic of the cup really is back.

Headline on BBC Sport, Guardian Sport, Football365, etc:

"Man United held to draw by Middlesborough."

Why? How on Earth is that the day's most important football story?

Oh yes, that made me so

I'm a Yorkshire lass (hence the obligation to support the woeful, dire "football" team better known as the Owls) and I was really really rooting for Barnsley (at the risk of ostracism from my family)

So what if Cardiff are Welsh? More power to them. I can see a time when Rangers and Celtic will puss to join the British Premier League - I'm supposing they have more money than the Derbys and Fulhams? - and there won't be any bleating about how they are Scottish (except from rightly riled Scotland fans I suppose) But that's a whole other can of worms.

Orcus - you could be right - Hillsborough always seems to be full, it's probably that Yorkshire sense of schadenfreude that keeps them (us when I can) going!

The Welsh bit is that they are possibly going to win a cup that gives a representative of English football to the UEFA cup.

If Cardiff win it, then they won't qualify to represent England as they fall under the jurisdiction of the Welsh FA.

I think Portsmouth (assuming they don't qualify via another route) will qualify as runners up in that case.

I suspect (not sure about this) that Cardiff City won't qualify to represent Wales either as it isn't a Welsh FA competition.

That is why there is (quite rightly) a bruhaha about them being Welsh.


Celtic and Rangers are in terms of fan base (UK at least) up there with the top 4 in the Premier League I think. So yes, they are much richer than Derby and the Fulhams.

Ah... that's a bit of a pickle then, isn't it?

I've gone off the whole European thing anyway because it's just (like the Premier League) all about money. In fact I'm almost off footie altogther.

If Cardiff win, I'm not sure Portsmouth will qualify that way - it might go to 6th place in the Premier League instead (which may well be Portsmouth anyway...), but regarding the UEFA Cup, as far as I was aware Michel Platini (who is thankfully now in charge) said that Cardiff would get a wildcard entry into the competition (i.e. not representing any country, like Liverpool in the Champions League in 2005/6) if they won the final.

Quite right too. I live in Cardiff at the moment so you can imagine I get a feel for the strength of feelings on this.
Portsmouth will almost certainly stuff them though I think

I think you're right about the UEFA qualification there, I think I read that somewhere too right enough.

There was a debate somewhere else about this I rad and as far as im concerned, if you play in the English League then you should be able to represtent England in Europe.

I agree.

Interesting article on the Cardiff situation here:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/columnists/martin_samuel/article3578590.ece

Still, if the rules were changed once for Liverpool, I expect they can be changed again for Cardiff.