h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Hi all!

I'm a new researcher just getting started and a bit of an XML buff - can I ask a nice, simple question? If we're allowing all of HTML inside GuideML, why not switch to XHTML and then either:
Use a different namespace for the GuideML bits
OR
Wait for the XHTML 1.1 to come out and add a GuideML module.

I know that this will require a few changes - lowercasing the tags being the most obvious, but I think it might be good for the long-term future of GuideML.

Second question - is there a DTD/ XML Schema available I can plug into my editor? If not I can probably help generate one.

Raist

[The problem with the rat race is, even if you win, you're still a rat]

I don't know the answer to the 1st question - but on the 2nd - I believe a DTD is currently being developed.

;^)#

Well, we aren't *strictly* allowing HTML through - all GuideML including HTML tags that we pass through has to be well formed. It's only in the final XSL transform that it's converted into HTML ( being 'corrected' to for example).

Forcing a different namespace on GuideML isn't something I'd like to do, necessitating as it would completely rewriting every piece of GuideML in the database. We've already seen how painful a slight change is (when we moved to using XSLT, which required GuideML to be a *lot* stricter than we previously needed) so a wholesale change like this isn't something that's likely to happen without significant benefits.

And no, we don't have a DTD, mainly because I couldn't face writing one right now. We'll produce one soon, though.

...in the final XSL transform ...
What are you using for this? Apache Cocoon (http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/)? AxKit (http://www.axkit.org)? IBM Websphere (At $20,000 per processor never needed a URL!)?
Some custom stuff - whatever it is I'd like to talk more to you about it!

..we don't have a DTD, mainly because I couldn't face writing one right now...
Do you know about the automatic DTD generator at:
http://www.pault.com/Xmltube/dtdgen.html
just drop a file or two of your ML at it and it will automatically generate a DTD for you!
The result usually just needs a (little - usually < half hour) bit of tweaking - if you have some fairly complete and complex examples of Approved Entry GuideML I would be willing to run it for you.

I've also had a look at some of the web pages now that i know you're running them through XSL - it loks like it wouldn't be too hard to get your output compliant to XHTML - rather than forcing changes in GuideML - plans / thoughts?

Thanks for the time!

Raist

We probably will use some form of DTD generator - the only problem with that is making sure that the GuideML we feed it is itself properly formed. It's just another thing on the list of things we've got to do, top of which is getting a new version finished asap...

On the technical side of things here...bravo. A remarkable site with a remarkable interface.

Forgive me for being a novice with XML (I'm just discovering PHP and SQL after years of being a design freak), but I'm wondering: is this DTD thing a tag scheme, i.e. the sort of thing you could use with Dreamweaver? I know I must sound like a complete incompetent, but this is all news to me. I'm designing a personal site for my Flash and design projects, and I'd like to make it as user-friendly as possible.

Keep up the brilliant, brilliant work, guys. Nice to see DNAs' dream made reality.

A DTD defines the allowed format of an XML document - which tags are allowed where, and in what combination. Using one *should* mean you can never produce a page which displays incorrectly.

Unfortunately, a DTD is a hideous looking beast, and nobody here has felt motivated enough to knuckle down and produce one.

It'll happen eventually, though.

Hi Jim!
I'm a neewbie (too)and I have basically the same problem as jzellis one week ago. I'd prefer a DTD to include it into Dreamweaver 3 and I'd be happy if it appeared as soon as possible, because I got a Guide Entry nearly finished, but in HTML with tables and so on, to match the look of H2G2 as good as possible. Then I found out about the GuideML (or better I took a closer look at the specifications) and discovered that it is much better for this purpose than HTML. Well, that's what it was designed for, wasn't it?
Anyway, is it really so complicated to write a DTD? (As I said I'm a neewbie. I really don't know.) I think it would be very helpful for all of us.

DTDs are nasty. Really, really nasty. I looked at one once. Never again. Or at least not in the foreseeable future. As an alternative, I've written a notepad-like program called GuidePost which has commands for inserting GuideML tags. It won't syntax check for you (yet), but it does make it slightly easier to produce compliant markup and to learn which tags are in GuideML and which aren't. It's still under development - the current release version is 0.2, with 0.3 half-finished on my hard disk. There's a link to the GuidePost site from my space, or you can just go to http://www.walton.uklinux.net (sorry about the shameless plug there everyone )