h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

So what do you all think? My opinion on this is that the 'Nanny State' is going too far.

I don't think that this is necessarily a modern problem. Up until the puritanical regime of the Victorians and the necessary clamping down of licensing hours and beer strength during the 1st World War, the Brits have ALWAYS been known for their tendency to enjoy the odd tipple or twelvety on a night out. Just look at the infamous spread of Gin Houses in London in the late 18th Century - people were just as badly behaved than they are down your average town centre on a Saturday night.

Therefore I don't think we should get too hysterical about blaming the youth, the brewers or other modern issues - perhaps we should just look as the genetics of the British people for the reason?

Paully

I *had* to change that title...

In my opinion the binge drinking 'problem' comes down to three things:
Idiocy - because drinking for drinking's sake until you puke is stupid, but of course an idiot cannot tell what is idiotic and just does it anyway.
Pressure - Drinking has become the new smoking in that there are adverts all over the place which play up the 'coolness' of it. If you don't drink you are regarded as some kind of wierdo.
Money - BOGOFs, happy hours, 50p a shot... need I say more? This one, of course, links to the first point as a fool and his money are soon parted.

If, and its a big 'if', we believe the reports we hear through the media, that alcohol-fueled crimes are increased over that which they previous were, and then say that this is as a result of 'binge' drinking, then it might be nice to know why suddenly this is ment to be the case when previously it were not? I have seen absolutely no evidence that more alcohol is being consummed in shorter priods, I can't see any evidence that more people/youngsters are doing this, and the figures I saw some time ago about what 'constituted' 'binge' drinking just made me laugh; this was an average lunchtime quick drinkies, when I was a 16/17 year old, and we didn't go around afterwards comitting crimes....
So, and the case that I'd argue, is that yet again, the government sees 'jumping' on 'binge' drinking a quick and easy way to address a problem, that they can't in the first place identify the cause of, and second can't be bothered to actually 'deal' with, only appear, that they are dealing with. I've said this before in a couple of threads, but one thing that is most probably leading to the 'currnet trubble' (should there actually be one any differnt from any time previous), is the 'not my bisunness' attitude of adults today: when I was starting out drinking at aged 15 - 16, in bars and pubs, were I to have behaved like many of the young, and not so young people I see out in teh pubs at the moment behave, I'd have been asked to 'shut up' or 'tone it down', and if I'd not have done so, would ahve been liberally beaten up and removed from the pub....
Now, I'm not Suggesting for a moment that beating up unrouley ignorant stupid people is a good idea... though... no, I'm not* suggesting that; But something is clearly going wrong when these people behave in such ways, and do not know that what they are doing is unacceptible....
To which end, alcohol isn't a cause; but a trigger, which exaceribates the problem; I seem currently to live in the centre of a 'chav' 'district', and they behave like idiots and abnoxiously all day, irrelivent of weather or not they have been drinking. Just when they have been drinking, is when they get particularly* abnoxious and decide its fun to empty bins onto the street and knock wing mirrors off the cars up the road.
So, I'd argue that what has gone wrong/led to the current 'halloganism' (however its spelt), is failure of 'socialisation' of these kids at some point, so they've grown up thinking they can get away with their yobish idiot behaviour.
As to whom or what has failed to give them a normal socialisation, I'd not like to comment, but schools, parents etc., would seem obvious candidates, though far be it for me to even remotely sugest these are the cause

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I think the figures given out are what *medically* constitues a 'binge', I think of binge drinking as knocking back your age in pints and then topping it up with cheap shots.

WEll.... yes Another thing that just occured to me about this; where are all these cheap drinks? I've never seen any anywhere... now a pint here is £2.70 or thereabouts (in the cheap* bars) also, another potential reason for the failure in these kids being house trained, I mean, socialised to be humans, is perhaps the media as well... Though I do suddenly see myself dropping into the comomon hole of blameing the 'obvious candidates' for all of societies ails... schoools..... media.... parents....this awful 'new fangled' 'rock and roll' music.... Something else that occurs to me; Now the 'powers that be' have identified 'alcohol' ad the root of all teenage evil (incorrectly), do they have any suggestions for dealing with it? oh... no they don't.... thats afterall one of the main reasons for choosing it, they can't be vlaimed when the 'rpboem' doens't go away... What with all this talk of alcohol in kids though, makes me wonder, why they're pressumbably doing this and not taking drugs... whats rong with them the softies.... a few more kids on teh amphetamins I'd ahve thought would be a good thing, help deal with the rise in obaesity Actually... I've not much clue what drugs the kids are taking these days... probably the same as in my youth I guess....

I think I owe you all apologies for my crap use of the English language in regards to choosing my subject line, In a pleading defence I must confess that I typed it in a hurry before I departed for my tea break.

Not a problem... I just pressumed you were drunk! only kidding

At forty-plus, I'm not going to knock people who are doing the same things and learning the same lessons that I had to in my early twenties: this would make me sound like a humourless old fart who's forgotten what it was to be young.

However, I've got to point a finger at greedy pub companies and licenced premise owners trying to wring every last drop out of the drinking public.

We live on a street where the first five hundred yards consist of restaurants, shops, pubs and bars. The retail part of the street abruptly stops and becomes residential, we live about two hundred ards down from the interface.

When we first moved in eleven years ago, the pub and eaterie trade closed abruptly at eleven. There'd be maybe half an hour's hubbub as the places closed, then silence.

In the last few years especially, as more and more drink outlets have opened on our street, late-night noise has increased and gone on till later as people go home from the bars.

Right now, we've got wine bars and pubs that are trying to get late licences to stay open till three on weekend nights.

We're actively trying to get the local council to turn down these applications ("we" being the residents and not the business owners)on the grounds that our needs as a residential street are not being met, primarily the right to quiet after midnight and the right to a peaceful night's sleep. It also means that more people are drawn into the area, there is more traffic noise, we residents who don't have private parking can find it difficult to park our own cars in the evening, there is a constant noise of taxis and slamming car doors way after midnight, the street is carrying a volume of traffic it cannot cope with, and (in our case) we do shift and weekend work: if you have to be up at five on a Sunday morning, you do not want bloody rowdy drunks on the pavement outside at three.

The licencing committee is keen to grant the permanent extentions regardless, as if the right to make money out of the drinks trade is more important than the rights of the people who live in the same street (owners and tenants alike: we all live here and have the same noise problem at weekends)

We have also pointed out to the business owners involved that if they do this, they've lost a lot of goodwill from neighbours. We appreciate they'll be losing money, but enough is very definitely enough.

<< Another thing that just occured to me about this; where are all these cheap drinks? >>

Try coming to Swindon! You can't move for BOGOFs, and '50p a shot!', and 'Pint for a Pound!'.

I should move house clearly mind, I guess the pound a pint beer is stuff I don't want to drink anyhow.... back ooo about twelve years when I was 16 or thereabouts we used to get pint for 50 pence during the 'happy hour' (which was two hours long) at our local little microbrewry's 'tasting room' I love that place... though I think I've a few bruised still left from when I used to get in frights with teh bikers

I'm not sure England, with their great mass transit, has the same problem we do here in Texas, with very little mass transit: drunk driving. In a recent year, 1,709 people were killed in alcohol-related crashes in Texas, and 63,500 people were injured. These are Iraq War levels. In my suburb a few years back, a drunk driver "launched" his car from his side street across the main divided street, killing a family of 3 or 4, and getting a LONG sentence. Another 2 AM drunk took out four parked NASCAR stock cars, parked BEHIND A BARRICADE on the closed street, ready for a holiday show the next day. The carnage is so common, most don't even make the news, the shows typically only run a half hour. This is the home of 2 cold canned pints for $1.50 at the gas station, plus ammo at some drive-thrus ...

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Which England are you talking about?

Drunk driving is a problem here but even when someone dies it seems that the worst the drunk driver gets is a slap on the wrist and a couple of months inside.

A friend told me the secret the other day.
Keep going, because nobody can says it's a binge until you stop.

Hmm, so Britain has a drinking problem too, eh? I thought it was just Ireland

The Irish drinking problem is pretty much the same as the British; however, it is somewhat more extreme. We Irish drink more alcohol overall than any other country in Europe, despite having a population equal to that of many moderately sized European cities. This is despite the fact that happy hours are illegal over here, and BOGOFS and pints for a euro probably also are (though you'll never see anyone selling anything that cheaply over here...).

Does binge drinking cause problems? Hell yes. Does it increase crime? Again, yes. we often hear minor news stories about people who have been injured or killed in 'drink related incidents,' meaning that someone got seriously drunk and beat up some random stranger, who was probably also drunk. Kids may steal money from their parents to get alcohol, and then there is also a sh**-load of vandalism.

However, most Irish people have realized that the whole problem is the massive alcohol culture in Ireland. I mean, in this country, when you go out, you o out to drink alcohol; if you happen to have a nice conversations, that's an added bonus. In our European neighbours, by contrast, people go out to have a pleasant evening and night in good company; a little alcohol may make things even nicer.

In many of the more enlightened European countries, children are allowed to drink watered down wine at the age of twelve, proper beer at sixteen, and anything they like at eighteen. In Ireland, people are not allowed to drink any alcohol at all until the age of eighteen - indeed, most 6th-class puplils make a pledge before God not to do so during their Confirmation. The result is that almost all start to drink at age 14, and those few people like me who decide to abide by a promise and the law are routinely bullied and harrassed.

Interestingly enough, a group of college students were forced to leave their homes a while ago because they were being terrorized by drunken mobs of schoolkids.

When I did turn 18, I naturally tried all kinds of alcohol, then never did again, having comet to the conclusion that I don't like it. However, the pressure was still there throughout the end of secondary school.

Weirdly enough, that pressure evaporated as soon as I entered college. I'm not sure why, but no-one thinks any less of me if I opt for a soft drink on a night out. Presumably this is because alcohol is allowed in college, so it's not such a forbidden fruit. However, it still causes problems. walking by the college ar, one can see one's fellow students drinking beer at 10:00am. I think we can all agree that this is a bad idea. And during rag week, many students refuse to give money to charity (which is the whole point of the week...really!) because they want to get pissed.

Those are my thoughts on alcohol. Feel free to pick them apart. Now excuse me while I go smoke a joint.

Quite right. What the Hell are students doing being up and about at that time in the morning?

working and thus saving for going to the damn place!

When I was a student, I saw lots of people drink stupid amounts of alcohol - including myself. I was in so much debt, I figured what was a cheap pint or 7 or going to do to make it worse?

As Apollyon said, part of the problem is the culture of drinking we have in this country; to not drink any alcohol or never get drunk, is generally considered odd. Our culture seems to be geared towards drinking for drinking's sake. It never seems to be a good night out unless someone got so drunk they fell over/threw up/pulled an ugly person/did something else equally embarrassing and degrading.

Getting drunk has been an acceptable way to relax and let off steam and forget about things for some time in this country. In order to change the 'binge drinking' culture, we would first need to change our culture full stop.

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Yes, I've heard Londoners complain about the Tube, etc. But my wife & I managed to greatly enjoy a ten day holiday in London without renting a car, not possible in most US cities IMHO. We greatly enjoyed the Tube, although admittedly we were not travelling at peak times.

Here in Houston, we have an interesting approach to mass transit:

None.

Oh, there are buses in some parts of town, at least until it gets dark . And there is a single five mile light rail line that is useless to 99.9% of the population. But when the bars close after midnight, the way home is the car ... not sure, but I suspect our 1600+ drunken driver caused deaths in Texas each year is more than England ... And we have the same problem with repeat offenders, who tend to keep showing up in court time after time.

Why do we find the need to change things, just for the sake of change? Binge drinking has been with us for many years now. Heck even I can remember going on binges way back in the 60s, and then all through my Navy years till I came out in the 70s.
Why do we always want to change things? Making new laws will not change anything, thats already been proven with the present drug situation.
Its not the binge drinking thats the problem, its the way the youngsters behave after they have been on a binge. Thats the route of all our problems today, in this modern society.
The whole idea of behaviour has changed in this new politically correct world we now live in.
Kids are brought up, to get away with anything they do, no one can spank them, teachers cant hit them, and worst of all, parents cant control them!
So if they know that they cant be touched for breaking laws, even when they are sobar, who or what, is going to stop them when they are drunk?
We are all now paying the price for these tree hugging, politically correct, liberal attitudes, that have poisened our way of life with, so I hope that they can now live with what they have created
Smudger,