h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

I was just reading the "Would you eat cloned meat?" debate over in today's Have Your Say on the BBC News website. I noticed that there was more than one reference to the possibility of genetic defects being cloned and these being consumed by humans and adversely affecting our health. Not being a nutritionist, biologist or geneticist I thought perhaps some of the good folk here on SEx could discuss this point.

1) Given the current state of cloning, are additional genetic defects introduced by the cloning process?

I've seen references to "mad cloned cow disease", but I realize there is a difference between genetically transmissible conditions and viral and bacterial diseases.

2) What sorts of genetic defects in a food animal can impact human health through the consumption of meat?

3) In short, can eating cloned meat be harmful to human health in any way?

There seems to be much fear but little science in the general public discussions. I'm interested to hear the opinions of those who frequent this venue.

Lappydappydandy (Lappy)

I would be willing to bet my health that the good (normally expensive) parts of a cloned animal would be far better than whatever is in a pack of beef mince.

There is absolutely no way you can 'catch' a genetic disease by eating GM meat. Genetics, genetic diseases and our digestive systems just don't work like that.

There is a possibility that problems with the meat protein might be complicated, making it difficult to digest or metabolise, or possibly more prone to bacterial infection. This would only be a temporary problem for the eater, and one would assume it had been well tested-out in the lab in any case.

If it's going to be the future of sustainable food, I say go ahead and clone.

B

I'm no big-city fancy-pants biologist, but aren't there genetic problems associated with cannabalism? E.g. eating genetic material from your own species can lead to genetic diseases? And if that is the case, why does it happen, and does it apply to cloned animals?

One potential problem off the top of my head is that genetically similar animals - such as clones (duh) - are more vulnerable to disease.

Also I find it quite unlikely that cloning is going to be cheaper than shagging any time soon, but what do I know?

Traveller in Time not a genetic expert either
"I agree with Mu Beta

Canibalism is not a good idea due to viral infections, nothing to do with genetic deseases. The nutrial balance in the human flesh is about right for consumption however.

Genetic diseases are herited from your parents, not eaten. Genetic defects such as bad proteins should be selected out before cloning (do not clone animals with poisonous meat for consumption ). "

Right, that was my general understanding of things, regarding contagious vs. genetic diseases. I am also puzzled as to why there is a need for the current US FDA announcement. I would have thought that breeding was far cheaper and more reliable than cloning. Maybe the highly priced, perfect specimens might be cloned to then go on and breed the traditional way, though I still don't see why at this point. Would you still have to label that consumption of cloned meat?

Regarding cloned meat, it's identical to 'natural' meat, and thus should be no better or worse to eat.

Regarding cannibalism, I was under the impression that the main danger was from prions, which are misfolded proteins that cause correctly folded proteins to misfold in the same way. They cause diseases such as mad cow disease and kuru.

Regarding offspring of cloned cows: even if both parents were cloned, I don't see a reason to label the offspring as cloned meat. After all, if two cloned animals have sex, a sperm and an ovum with n chromosomes each combine to form a *zygote* with 2n unique chromosomes each, so the baby is a naturally occurring non-clone. However, the sort of person who thinks that there is something inherently wrong with cloned or genetically modified food will probably not be convinced of such by this reasoning.

These cloned animals don't seem to live very long do they? Don't they have trouble breathing and doing other bodily functions? I wouldn't want to eat one.
They must be labelled so that future doctors can compare the health of persons eating 'normal' meat (if there is still such a thing or is all meat packed with growth hormone these days)and cloned meat and tell us if it's really safe to eat. It might take years for problems to show up.
I'll never forget the footage of Agriculture Minister (?) John Selwyn Gummer MP shoving a burger into his young daughter's mouth and saying it's prefectly ok to eat, CJD cannot pass to humans! I worry about where all this tampering with our food is leading.

I haven't heard anything about cloned animals not living long. Where did you see that?

I heard an 'expert' say it on the news the other day.He said the cloned animals had heart disease, breathing problems, kidney problems, and they had a miserable painful existence and then died.

If we could pick up 'genetic defects'** from eating food then seeing as all of us, vegan, carnivore and omnivore eat food with genes in every day of the week, every week of the year for our entiry life then we'd be pretty screwed - in fact life would have a hard time surviving full stop if this was any sort of problem whatsoever.

Digestion will destroy more or less all food (except for really hard to digest stuff which ends up as faeces) , breaking it down to very basic building blocks (sub protein and sub genetic) and then use those building blocks to make protein, nucleic acids and other essentials for our cells from scratch.
Essential vitamins are more or less the only exception to this amongst higher animals. Look up metabolism and catabolism to see what pathways exist for breaking down food and rebuilding it into 'us'.

Since at least two of the people who caught vCJD were vegetarian prior to any of the BSE outbreaks then I find it hard to draw any other conclusion than we don't actually have a clue as to how vCJD is transmissible. Eating it cannot have been resonsible in at least two cases and caused absolutely no harm whatsoever in the vast majority of cases since most of the population of the UK was likely exposed and hardly anyone contracted it.


**whatever they are supposed to be

Orcus,
What about labelling this stuff if only to give us the choice? I've eaten bad meat a couple of times and had terrible reactions waking up in the night with skin on fire and having to plunge several times into a full bath of cold water and such carryings on. Don't know about any long term effects though.
As an interesting aside, I remember taking a frozen turkey back to the supermarket a few years ago. It had some kind horrible cancerous looking growth on it. I haven't eaten one since.

<>

They're not any more or less vulnerable to disease than genetically diverse populations on an individual level, but on a population level, it becomes an all-or-nothing proposition. A disease which one is vulnerable to, all are vulnerable to, so the right bug could wipe out the whole herd in short order.

We feed the cloned animals with gentically modified soya
and then we get to eat them. Wonderful!

Oh noes! What has science done?

Having read your posts on this thread, Lucky, I think you should seriously think about founding a new religion.

If mad cow disease among humans is obtained by eating the meat of an infected animal how is it that we will not be able to contract disease from a cloned animal? also my understanding of cloning is that after a certain number of clones (the exact number escapes me) the pattern recognition deteriorates and makes further cloning not viable it would therefore not seem as sustainable as simple normal procreation where diversity is ensured and one would assume a lesser degree of biological problems created?

Thank you Fanny. The new religion shall be called keep your eye on the lepidoptera. This will give us an early warning signal that the planet is getting a bit too 'disallowed f-word up'. The butterflies shall be our prophets.

On a side line, Lucky are you certain that your ill-effects were caused by bad meat? Was it a dish prepared at home or eaten out? Did you have any suspicions while eating it?

Is it possible to cook 'bad' meat sufficiently for it to be safe to eat?

I'm just curious, because I get the impression that most cases of illness after eating are generally related to poor hygiene & consumption of raw products (e.g. salads) or inadequate cooking of meat which is infected or too old.

Any experts on this?