h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Fragilis, you make some good counter points to my suggestions. But please understand that that's all they were - suggestions. I was not stating what I believed to be the only options; as you have pointed out, there are many other alternatives.

Really, I was just seeing if people felt that there were particular areas where it was felt (for practical and/or scientific reasons) that certain features were much more likely.
An example is that while dolphins are very intelligent and I would not rule out intelligent water-based aliens , I still suspect that there would be a tendency for most aliens at the same intelligence level to be primarily land-based. I could be wrong (but then I can't easily check!). Mainly, I was just looking to see if there were any interesting suggestions.

Your point about the variable gravity is a good one; our planetary conditions could cause us to be biased. Maybe there is a strength of gravity below which it might even be MORE likely that intelligent life is airborne?

What about you, Fragilis? Given that (a) many options are possible (b) we can't really check, do you have any suggestions for features that might be more common amongst intelligent lifeforms than amongst lifeforms in general? Or do you think that we shouldn't try?

In answer to the original question - cos Evolution is a myth. Please don't tell me you actually go for all that Darvin nonsense?
Fargilis - the male/female libido imbalence is fine, cos it gives us more motivation to experiment with the compatible types in same-sex situations #yay#

and finally 'self-cooling testicles' euck! as if their cold feet arn't bad enough!!!!

Oh - and being able to pee outside without getting wet shoes would be nice!
OK it's just a girl thing, but it should be fitted as standard!

It´s funny how everybody just presume dolphins to be intelligent, without it ever having been proven. Anyways, I think ppl here needs to make a difference between aliens that possess intelligence and aliens that possess technology. If it´s just intelligence it could be just about anything. But I think if it has technology then it will be land-based, cos how are you ever going to discover fire underwater? And what about a planet where you can´t see the stars because of cloud-layer or lack of visual senses. Astronomy was the first science, would we have developed science and technology if we had never seen the stars? Actually the reason humans can´t see infrared is because our eyes see best in the wavelength that the sun gives out most of. So if we had another sun, we might see infrared. About eyes, actually having eyes a long way from each other would give a more precise idea of distances, so it would be an advantage. Wouldn´t aliens with T also need to be social animals instead of very territorial?
About the genitals, that´s just what human women like. But if you look at what animals fid sexy, you could have some rather weird looking aliens. Like there´s a beetle where the larger a distance there is between your eyes, the sexier you are. They look quite grotesque.

This whole conversation, the SF section apart, is completely based on the presumptious assumption that we are the finnished article. A bit arrogant if you ask me. Evolution is an on-going process which given time will provide the needs for each species based on natural selection and survival of the fittest. Some of your suggestions for changes and additions are well thought, but at the end of the day, it only proves that we are not the finnished article and that something more practical will follow.
Having already got 4 arms and internal testicles, I'll be fine. It's the rest of you I worry about.

Why did some of the toys get amongst the sewers

Huw B, I accept your point about trying to find a basis to start this discussion. I get annoyed, because invariably the traits we call "intelligent" are ones we possess. Why not come up with one or more trait for intelligence we don't possess?

Xanatic, I believe dolphins have been proven at least borderline intelligent. We can communicate with them, after a fashion.The ability to do stupid tricks in WaterWorld takes more intelligence than you perhaps realize. Impressively, you can teach dolphins words for objects and actions. Then you can combine these words in a way you have never done before, and the dolphin will generally understand the instructions.

This makes dolphins smarter than a host of other animals considered borderline "intelligent" including dogs, cats, cockateels (sp?), and pigs. Certain apes are smarter still, in that they can communicate their feelings and needs. At least one has also developed an understanding of death after its kitten died. I believe that was Koko.

Anyway, I don't think an inability to create fire will stop a truly intelligent species. What exactly does a water-dwelling species need fire for? It seems rather silly to me to pressume they need it for anything. They could use other chemical reactions for most of the things we use fire for. And I can only presume that all species wouldn't have a special desire to cook their food.

What if we couldn't see the stars through the clouds? I think we would still find the stars. It would merely take us longer. For one thing, we would have presumably gone through the clouds as soon as the airplane was invented for faster travel. Even if we didn't know what to think of the stars at this point in humanity's development, once the Earth was overpopulated and the great explorers had nowhere left to go, space would be the next logical step.

Okay. I'll buy your argument on infrared. But what about night vision? Why don't humans have that -- especially when some of us prefer to be awake during the night and sleep through much of the day? Are our eyesa less smart than ca's? And if not, what makes
you presume that an alien with worse eyes than ours is somehow less intelligent?

I think the traits for intelligent species would depend almost entirely on their environment. The only two factors I consider necessary are a relatively high adaptability to environmental conditions, and a high brain density. That's about it.The rest is gravy.

Humans are badly designed because we are not designed at all. We just turned out that way.

I think designing people with extra hands to make things easier would not really do much good. Everyone would be expected to carry much more. People would be busy typing in questions into computers: "Why don't people have seven hands instead of only six?"

The real trick would be to have the extra hand when no-one else has one.

Many other species are just as badly designed. Manx cats give birth to still born babies about half the time (or so I've been told). Guinea pigs' teeth often grow so long that they can't eat. Rams' horns with too much of a curl can grow right back around until they puncture the head. Many insects have a brain that goes the whole way around their throat. If their brain expands, they starve to death. Red squirrels are sexually attracted to grey squirrels and spend all their energy pursuing them, even though they can't successfully mate with them.

evolution is always a compromise
You might think that a cheater would
just evolve to go faster and faster
and faster but for extra speed it has
to triad off other thing. Natural
selection balances all of the considerations.
I would consider the appendix as a major
human flaw, mine blew up a year ago!
The reason we havent lost it is that it is
quite a big leap from appendix to no appendix
evolution works slowly and in small bits.
(If any one out there believes the creation
myth please explain the appendix to me in
creasionistic terms)

JK

Fragilis, you suceeded to misunderstand about everything I said One of the first things I started out with was saying we need to show when we are talking about intelligent aliens, and when we are talking about aliens with technology. The creatues I described the necessary looks of, are creatures that would possess technology, not just be intelligent.

About the dolphins, I meant ppl think they´re sentient without ever having had it proved. But they do seem to be quite intelligent. I thought there might be something to the gorilla-talking thing, untill I read an internet chat performed by a gorilla. It was done by the gorilla that was apparently the best one at "talking", and it was really really bad. It was nothing but the trainers wishful thinking that made it seem to talk. I think I found the article on CSICOP´s homepage, check it out if you want.

We don´t posses very good night vision, but apparently our normal vision is better than the cats. Only surpassed by the falcon. And if we had to choose between cat vision and human vision, human vision would probably be best. Especially since all our other senses are so degenerated, we rely almost entirely on eye-sight.

Well, what I meant is if an alien species never see the stars, might they never invent science because they dont´really start to wonder? And about the fire, they don´t need it to warm up the pizza they bought at Mark & Spencer. It is simply because it is a very important energy source, for example to invent the steam engine. But in fact it seems cooking our food is connected with our intelligence, but I won´t get into that here.

Is tecnology a good measure of intelligence?
If not then what do we mean by intelligence
do we mean sentience?
If it is tecnological intelligence we are
talking about then we must allways remember
to talk about the speices as a hole as as an
individual i couldnt build a car or a computer.
But prehaps we mean each individuals potencial
with in the spieces to lurn stuff.
We must not assume that just because we can not
interface with animals that none of them can
communicate with each other. Communication must
be a must for tecnoloical inteligence.
etc