h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

edible Amanita
Post: 3

Posted Dec 8, 2009 by AgProv
Wasn't this the Marquis de Sade's downfall? He'd got it into his head that amanita muscaria was an aphrodisiac, and fed it to a couple of ladies of negotiable affection whom he'd hired for the day... on a tip-off, the police raided to find two very badly poisoned prostitutes suffering all the described symptoms, and busted de Sade for administering a lethal substance.





Amanita De sade
Post: 1

Posted 20 Hours Ago by fulvio
I'd like to know where to get this news on Amanita's use by Marquis De Sade. In which book of the Marquis is it? Thanks, Fulvio

The h2g2 Entry on de Sade A676190 doesn't mention it.

The Wikipedia entry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marquis_de_sade) mentions the following:

"An episode in Marseille, in 1772, involved the non-lethal poisoning of prostitutes with the supposed aphrodisiac Spanish fly and sodomy with his manservant Latour. That year the two men were sentenced to death in absentia for sodomy and said poisoning. They fled to Italy, and Sade took his wife's sister with him."

However, Spanish Fly appears to be the secretion of a beetle, rather than a mushroom. I hope that helps your search.

I don't want to google much more as I'm at work, I'm afraid!

A friend of mine once stole a massive bottle of tincture of cantharides (ie Spanish Fly) from an agricultural research laboratory (it was used on bulls). But he didn't know the dosage so he was afraid to use it.

btw...Amanita Muscaria isn't particularly deadly, as poisonous mushrooms go. You'd have to eat quite a few caps - and they're quite big. Plus treatment is straightforward *granted it might not have been in the MdS's day). Accidental poisoning is unlikely because they're just so identifiable.

The info in the books I had was Spanish Fly. I can't check up on the other thing you mention because I don't have the books anymore, sorry.

I got over that phase.

Perhaps AgProv U538194 should be asked, fulvio. I'm just off to bring this thread to his attention.



Here's the message I left him: F1696559?thread=7357842&post=93435828#p93435828

I have a book that goes into quite a lot of detail about this case: the book is called The Ghost Disease, by Michael Howard and Peter Ford, and it deals with 13 famous cases of detective work in the medical field. One was a fairly modern case of poisoning by cantharidin, or Spanish fly, and they referenced the de Sade affair as a famous historical example.

It happened in June 1772 in Marseille, and definitely used Spanish fly, not mushrooms. De Sade fled, and was sentenced to death in absentia for both sodomy and poisoning. Given that the French at the time had a particular horror of poisoning, which got a death sentence whether the vicitm lived or died, and in this case two of the women poisoned, Marguerite Coste and Marianne Laverne, very nearly died, it wasn't the over-reaction that some modern commentators are inclined to assume.

The books says that the Spanish fly is a green beetle called Cantharis vesicatoria, and the active chemical, cantharidin, owes its aphrodisiac reputation to its irritant effect on the urinary system, while larger doses can cause kidney failure.

Maybe AgProv's association of de Sade with Amanita Muscaria was the result of a confusion of Spanish Fly with Fly Agaric, the common name of Amanita Muscaria.

F51910?thread=146984

Thought I'd add the link to the original post. It was driving me a bit bonkers wondering about the context.

Hi

The original context, as I recall, was second-hand: criminologist Colin Wilson's book on deviant sexuality and how it can cross the line into sexual crime, up to and including including serial murder.

It's called "Order of Assassins" - Wilson devotes chapters to deSade and deMasoch in the context of a discussion of what defines sadism and masochism. My memory may be imperfect and I bet in this case it was, but I'm sure Wilson referred to amanita fungus... another Wilson, guerilla ontologist Robert Anton, also cites the story in his historical novel "The historical Illuminatus: The Earth Will Shake", in which deSade is a marginal character.

The best definitions I've heard are: The Masochist says *Hit me*, the Sadist says *No*.