h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Well, sticking out your tongue is a sign of respect in India as far as I know. And in Indonesia they seem to have an awful lot of masks with their tongues out.

Sorry to have taken so long to get back here


Everyone seemed generally to know what the haka is (with the exception of B ), or at least what one haka is about. The one you see before the rugby is a specifc form that originates with a man called Te Rauparaha, most well known where I live for raids into the South Island of NZ just prior to European settlement. There will be info about that on the link someone gave earlier in the thread (it's a rugby site).

I'm thinking about writing an entry on the haka, so thanks for the feedback.

The debate that was happening here in New Zealand was about whether the haka is too aggressive to have as a national icon (although I can't see that myself given rugby is ).

But there is alot of misunderstanding about the haka, particularly amongst kiwis. I don't know alot but I think that it's originally been a dance form used before battle and now it is most often seen in the formal welcome ceremonies given by Maori in places like the marae (meeting place) but is not necessarily an aggressive thing in terms of about to fight (although there is a challenge happening).

Ivan, I'm not sure about the Gallipoli thing. I'd have to do some research. My understanding is that haka have different meaning depending on the context - the aggressive, challenge your enemies one is the one most well known because of the rugby. But women had/have haka too, and in the welcome onto marae there is a whole part of the ceremony that is about establishing trust and respect (historically one might not know if guests were also enemies).

At a guess I would say that the haka at Gallipoli is a ritual of respect rather than challenge, but I could be wrong. Maori played a major part in NZ's involvement at Gallipoli.

There is a whole complexity to haka and it's place in Maori culture that I think is hard for people like me who exist outside that culture to fully understand.


Anyway, I'll post back here if I write an entry.


kea.

I'd like to see an entry on the Haka and what it symbolises

I think the Guide would definitely benefit from an entry on the Haka. It'd be good to see one.

Interesting that there is a debate on NZ on this "too aggressive" thing.
It would be good to know the outcome of that. The haka before the rugby games certainly looks very aggressive but also a bit absurd and it gets a bit tiresome like other ceremonies (national anthem playing etc).

Thanks for the encouragement to write an entry

Yeah, I find the prerugby thing a bit strange, not only because I imagine it gets repetitive, but also because there is no response from the other side. When the haka is used as part of the welcome onto marae and in other special ceremonial situations, the people who are being welcomed have this whole set of protocols to follow as well. I think sometimes (although not always) it includes a haka of their own. So when the haka is done by the All Blacks, and the opposing team does nothing, it's strange, as if the other team has no mana (not that that has helped the All Blacks though ).


Other situations where I've seen haka used is when a Maori wins an award and goes up onto a stage to accept it, and people in the audience will get up spontaneously and haka. It's a sign of respect and acknowledgement of mana (esteem).

I thought the Rugby Haka was used to taunt the opposition so the opposition either ignore it or make their own gestures

There was a haka being done outside Cardiff train station as I went home 1 day this week.
I'm presuming this is rugby connected but I try and avoid rugby so I don't know

The Barbarians were playing somewhere this week, could have been Cardiff

thats probably it
might've been a youth team, they all looked pretty young
then again more and more people do nowadays

Yeah, an entry on the haka(s) would be great

I think it's wonderful. I'm not a big rugby fan, but it's always fascinating watching how other teams respond. Rightly or wrongly, I've always seen it as a positive statement about New Zealand society - a Maori traditional chant/dance (or version thereof) performed by the NZ national team playing a game with empire origins. It's intimidating, but it's not aggressive per se.

The All Blacks doing the haka always pisses me off, it feels like an unfiar psychological advantage for them, since other teams don't have their own ritual.

Apparently the Scottish team watch Braveheart before a match, someone reads the "Cry God for Harry, England and St George" speech before England play, I don't know about Ireland and Wales

Mm, but in terms of public displays, the NZ team does have an advantage, an advantage that is 'protected' at that. When the Scottish team asked for permission to play the bagpipes prior to their World Cup games, they were refused.

The Western Samoan's have a haka too

Kerr, I do think that other teams should be allowed to respond, or have their own thing (as long as it's not some made up w*nky ritual that doesn't really mean anything). Do you know if a reason was given for not allowing the Scots their bagpipes?


Six7s has just told me a story about the Samoan's doing a haka in response to the All Blacks. I'll see if I can get him to tell the story here.

I seem to remember the South Africans or Australians giving a response once, but I can't remember what it was.

I don't think the All Blacks' haka is solely about intimidating the 'enemy'. I think it's probably also about raising their own energy and mana before the game.

Also I'm not sure it's so much about provoking a reaction from the other team, as it is about putting a challenge to them to show their own mana, to see how they can handle themselves. That's why I think it's a shame that other teams don't have something to respond with. I'll be interested to see in my research if Maori have a perspective on what non-Maori should do in response.

"I seem to remember the South Africans or Australians giving a response once, but I can't remember what it was."

Probably a two fingered salute if I know the Aussies

I think I remember the England team standing with arms folded trying to stare them down.

There was a proposal for an English haka once
"A cup of tea, cup of tea...."

"There was a proposal for an English haka once
"A cup of tea, cup of tea....""

Oh how true that is, I don't function at all until i've had my

I'm busy researching . All those haka being performed at the moment , and if I'm quick I can watch it without having to see any actual rugby