A Conversation for Ask h2g2
Billions and Billions
anhaga Started conversation Feb 20, 2005
So, like, I was thinking . . .
I've been carrying around this 'the Earth is four and a half billion years old' thing in my head for a couple of decades now and is that American Billions or European Billions?
I suspect it's American Billions, but it really does make a quite substantial difference.
Billions and Billions
DA ; Simply Vicky: Don't get pithy with me! Posted Feb 20, 2005
I'd always assumed it was English billions (i.e., proper ones ) but I'd never thought about it until now. I wonder!
Billions and Billions
Yelbakk Posted Feb 20, 2005
In school, the number I learned was four "Milliarden" - when of course a "Milliarde" is what other places refer to as a billion.
So, to clear things up:
thousand = 1000 x one
million = 1000 x thousand
"Milliarde" = 1000 x million
So, the earth should be something like 4x1000x1000x1000 years old - now you tell me what billion that is.
Y.
Billions and Billions
DA ; Simply Vicky: Don't get pithy with me! Posted Feb 20, 2005
Milliarde appears to be an American billion. A 'proper' billion (what we used to use in NZ, but we now use the American one) is
a million times a million.
Billions and Billions
Yelbakk Posted Feb 20, 2005
In other words, a lot
The problem with such numbers is that they are simply inconceivable. It doesn't really matter to me whether earth's age is (to my understanding) very old or older still.
One million million - I don't even know whether there is a name for such a number in German. Oh wait, we do, I just don't know what it is:
Milliarde = 1000x1000
Trilliarde = 1000 Milliarden?
Billion = 1000 Trilliarden?
Or it could be the other way around.
Y.
Billions and Billions
Orcus Posted Feb 20, 2005
It's definitely US billions.
The earth is 4.5 Gigayears old - ie. 4.5 x 10^9
ie. 4 500 000 000 years old
The Universe is estimated to be 12.5 Gyears old so having the earth at 4.5 x 10^12 (the old British billion - which incidentally no longer exists as far as a I'm aware) would make for some interesting philosphical discussions
Billions and Billions
Orcus Posted Feb 20, 2005
Having googled about a bit it seems that most of Europe uses the old British Billion.
It seems the only country that doesn't use it in Europe is Britain where it was abandoned in the sixties from effectively all use.
That's if the pages I looked at are to be believed anyhow.
Anyone who really makes use of figure of such size from day to day (scientists and the like) will use SI prefixes though as there can be no confusion.
Ie. Kilo (K) = 10^3, Mega (M) = 10^6, Giga (G) = 10^9, Tera (T) = 10^12
You may be interested to know that 10^100 is Google
Billions and Billions
IctoanAWEWawi Posted Feb 20, 2005
I seem to recall that the US definition of billion was made the SI standard some time ago. Hence the switch to use it.
Although thinking about it as per the post, i.e. 1000x1, 1000x1000, as a series is the first time it has ever made sense to me as to *why* the US chose their way.
Billions and Billions
aging jb Posted Feb 20, 2005
Fifty years ago "billion" was used for 10**12 in Britain and for 10**9 in the USA. This was confusing.
At some point a decision was taken by various groups in Britain (for whom numbers greater than 4 were not simply "many") to resolve this confusion. (The groups involved seem to have included the Financial Times and the BBC.) The meaning 10**9 was adopted for "billion", although some people, less and less, continued to use the old meaning. Occasionally a definition and explanation was given.
In the USA it continued to be confidently asserted that 10**12 was the meaning of "billion" in Britain. This is confusing.
(10**9 means, in this context, 10 to the ninth power)
Billions and Billions
Orcus Posted Feb 20, 2005
As an exercise it might be fun to see if anyone could name a situation where the old style billion (ie 10^12) would be a useful phrase to use.
Outside of maths and hardcore science I can't think of one.
Billions and Billions
Mu Beta Posted Feb 20, 2005
"hardcore science"
Sounds exciting. Why don't I get to teach that?
B
Billions and Billions
I am Donald Sutherland Posted Feb 20, 2005
>> You may be interested to know that 10^100 is Google <<
Well actually 10^100 is a Googol. Google was meant to be Googol but somebody misspelled it.
Donald
Billions and Billions
azahar Posted Feb 20, 2005
Nah, wasn't misspelled - was meant to be a play on words, like their new shopping site, Froogle.
az
Billions and Billions
plaguesville Posted Feb 21, 2005
Student: "Professor, in your talk just now you said that our sun will develop into a red giant and incinerate the Earth. Did you say that will be in 5 Million years or 5 Billion years?"
Professor: "5 Billion years."
Student: "Oh, that's OK then."
Key: Complain about this post
Billions and Billions
- 1: anhaga (Feb 20, 2005)
- 2: DA ; Simply Vicky: Don't get pithy with me! (Feb 20, 2005)
- 3: Yelbakk (Feb 20, 2005)
- 4: DA ; Simply Vicky: Don't get pithy with me! (Feb 20, 2005)
- 5: Yelbakk (Feb 20, 2005)
- 6: Orcus (Feb 20, 2005)
- 7: Orcus (Feb 20, 2005)
- 8: Orcus (Feb 20, 2005)
- 9: IctoanAWEWawi (Feb 20, 2005)
- 10: aging jb (Feb 20, 2005)
- 11: anhaga (Feb 20, 2005)
- 12: Orcus (Feb 20, 2005)
- 13: azahar (Feb 20, 2005)
- 14: Galaxy Babe - eclectic editor (Feb 20, 2005)
- 15: Mu Beta (Feb 20, 2005)
- 16: I am Donald Sutherland (Feb 20, 2005)
- 17: Mu Beta (Feb 20, 2005)
- 18: azahar (Feb 20, 2005)
- 19: BouncyBitInTheMiddle (Feb 20, 2005)
- 20: plaguesville (Feb 21, 2005)
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