h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Oh yes... your post 100, Edward

>>The point to remember is that it's not art as in 'artefact'. It's 'Conceptual Art'.<<

At first sight, that seemed reasonable. But.

This thing here is not art as in 'artefact', it's 'Representational Art'
This ... 'Cubism'
...

"Art is making something out of nothing and selling it."
Frank Zappa (1940-1993), American musical satirist.

An unmade bed or Klein's series of monochrome blue paintings require no artistry whatsoever - call it 'Art' if you like, but you're just being taken in.

"such as the one-trick pony Dali"

You were joking, of course...? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJP1Ke5Im00

>>if the answer is blue periods, as per the first hit google turned up, i'm gonna be mighty disappointed.

Emin:

RtB...

>>Your bedpost demonstrates "From the heart" at least - but I'm still tempted to ask "Who's heart?".Your bedpost demonstrates "From the heart" at least - but I'm still tempted to ask "Who's heart?".

Hers!

>>>>The point to remember is that it's not art as in 'artefact'. It's 'Conceptual Art'.<<

>>At first sight, that seemed reasonable. But.

>>This thing here is not art as in 'artefact', it's 'Representational Art'
This ... 'Cubism'

Crossed Porpoises. When I was talking about Conceptual Art, I was meaning Emin's schtick, not Picasso.

It's intersting, though. I s Cubism representational? I's certainly not abstract. I'd argue that it represents are perceptual relationship with an object better than any mere single-viewpoint photograph ever can.

>>"such as the one-trick pony Dali"

More like 'provoking'. Sure,as with Picasso his work said much about how we represent the world in our heads.

>>"Art is making something out of nothing and selling it."
>>Frank Zappa (1940-1993), American musical satirist.

Yes - but here we have the double satire of the the artist satirising himself. See also Warhol. Or Damien Hirst's skull. ('You want outrageously expensive art? I can do that!' Ah - but it hs *genuine* value because of the diamonds. Why?)

>>An unmade bed or Klein's series of monochrome blue paintings require no artistry whatsoever - call it 'Art' if you like, but you're just being taken in

First of all...I have to question the 'being taken in.' If people claim,as I and (who was it? Roymondo?)did that we are getting a genuine buzz from from the art,then either we are lying or the art is doing it's job. In what way are we being taken in? I'm sure we're both capable of commenting negatively on other works.

The bed I've justified already. The blue paintings - Trust me - it makes you feel good to stand in front of them. No - actually, *don't* trust me. Go to Tate Modern and decide for yourself. (Go on - do it. Time spent in an art gallery is seldom wasted.) It's absolutely fine if you disagree. That's allowed. You might have already seen them. But please allow that those who enjoy them are not merely dupes.

Agreed neither take much in the way of craft. But they're not about craft. They're about Art. It works the other way, too. For my money, an over-decorated ormoulu clock demonstrates craftspersonship. But as art...ugh!

I must emphasise that, highly though I rate Emin, she doesn't compare with Picasso. Nobody else does, Past or Present, East or West.

ah now rating art is a different thing altogether, and inextricable from 20th century notions of art as commercial commodity or currency. that we CAN get rid of without cultural loss. and should.

a pox on all 'best of' lists and those who write them.

reverse the subject there ed. picasso is that artist from whom you personally derive most satisfaction/stimulation/whatever it is you are thinking valuable.

"If people claim,as I and (who was it? Roymondo?)did that we are getting a genuine buzz[*] from from the art,then either we are lying or the art is doing it's job. In what way are we being taken in?"

I saw one at the Pompidou Centre last year - they're blue, Ed, just blue: http://www.artinthepicture.com/paintings/Yves_Klein/IKB-82/
Not the colour of any sky I've seen, or any sea... just blue. (Perhaps, by saying that you get a buzz[*] from this sort of thing, you are, in reality, claiming to understand a language far too arcane for the rest of us to fathom.)

[*] Can you be more specific about the buzz you get looking at a plain blue panel? Is it the fact that the panel is in a gallery? Would it still have that power stuck to the side of a bus stop shelter?

"The bed I've justified already." No need to justify your opinions -just don't expect to convince me that an unmade bed (no matter who it belongs to) is art.

So what do Picasso and Princess Diana have in common then?

Ta da!

So if I don't get Emin is it my fault or hers?

Or could it be I am just left lukewarm by her work?

Or that I really know I could do the same thing and I'm just not impressed.

Whereas I know I'll never be on a par with Dali or Picasso or Turner.

Researcher Big Name.
>>ah now rating art is a different thing altogether, and inextricable from 20th century notions of art as commercial commodity or currency. that we CAN get rid of without cultural loss. and should.

I agree. I was using 'rate' in the sense of 'think she's good.' I don't agree with the 'Best Of' concept (except where Picasso is concerned ), and certainly not with rating by monetary value.

Elf on Klein:
Perhaps, by saying that you get a buzz[*] from this sort of thing, you are, in reality, claiming to understand a language far too arcane for the rest of us to fathom.)

[*] Can you be more specific about the buzz you get looking at a plain blue panel? Is it the fact that the panel is in a gallery? Would it still have that power stuck to the side of a bus stop shelter?


This is an intersting one. In the case of Klein...I have to say I don't know much about him - other than having seen his work. Sp, know, I don't know any special, arcane language. My response is, then, purely personal.

The idea that it's something to do with its being in an art gallery is insightful. It's not that the context is saying to me 'This is Proper Art. Clever people like this kind of thing. But think of how home decor works. (Sure, I'll accept fully thyat paintin a canvas blue is pretty damned similar to painting a wall blue). In principle, different colourrs of Dulux emulsion can deliver different emotional responses. In practice - walls, of whatever colour) fade into the background. (Unless you get the colour; I once had to start over after covering a large dining kitchen in entirely the wrong shade of yellow.) But put the blue on a large canvas, stick it in a gallery and you're offering the art punter an invitation:
'Stand here a while and experience what the colour blue feels like, on a large scale.'

I don't know if this is what Klein meant, but it worked for me. Shame it didn't do it for you.

(Would it be rude of me to suggest you might have been blocked by a prickly resistance to artsy-fartsy pretension?)

Killer Whale:
>>So what do Picasso and Princess Diana have in common then?

We've done that. They both had blue periods.

Incog:
So if I don't get Emin is it my fault or hers?

I don't know. All I can say is that it's a shame. I didn't either, for a long time. Now I do. This has enhanced my life.

Not Getting Something is allowed. Obviously when this happens, the tendency is to think 'This is crap!' I'm as guilty of this as anyone. But we should, I feel, be prepared to change our minds, to find out more, to become convinced. If someone raves about an artist in a plausible way - maybe they should be listened to. After all, it's all about finding more and more things to enjoy - more fresh takes on the world.

>>They both had blue periods

Maybe we should add Klein.

That would make one hell of an erudite/ pretentious joke:
'What do Picasso, Princess Di and Yves Klein have in common.;

the erudite part being that the answer using the word 'both' when there are three people referenced necessarily implies that klein is derivative?

i can't see the big yin using it.

ok. derivative isn't the right word. but i had to put something there to fill up the empty space.

I won't press you further on this, but you still haven't really explained 'the buzz' or how 'it worked' for you.

A little more information on Klein (I didn't know much about him either): http://www.tate.org.uk/servlet/ViewWork?cgroupid=999999961&workid=8143&tabview=text&texttype=10

"IKB 79 was one of nearly two hundred blue monochrome paintings Yves Klein made during his short life."

"Many of Klein's artistic activities, such as selling zones of 'immaterial' space for the price of gold [can't think why Tracey Emin came to mind], trod a fine line between shamanism and commercialism."

"At his 1957 exhibition in Milan, he displayed a series of eleven ostensibly identical blue monochromes, each with a different price which he claimed reflected its unique spirit."


<(Would it be rude of me to suggest you might have been blocked by a prickly resistance to artsy-fartsy pretension?)> Not at all and you're right!

>>i had to put something there to fill up the empty space.

Maybe that's what Klein thought.

In fact...that's a pretty damned profound definition of Art.

>>"At his 1957 exhibition in Milan, he displayed a series of eleven ostensibly identical blue monochromes, each with a different price which he claimed reflected its unique spirit."

In which cae it sounds to me that he's taking the piss. Or...to put it more positively...making a statement about the material value of the spirit.

Yup - I like the sound of Klein. Seems like he was onto something.