A Conversation for Ask h2g2

What could a 'snickelway' be?

Post 1

Sea Change

John Turnbull used it in one of his Hennesy and Yallick mystery novels, which are set in the City of York. It appear to be a description of a path of some kind. It could be a typo, a variant spelling of something else, or slang, because it's not in the OED.

He also talks about people walking along the walls, instead of (perhaps) using the pavement. It the City of York small enough or heavily fortified enough that people are genuinely walking atop city walls in order to get places, or is he using more slang on this poor Yank?


What could a 'snickelway' be?

Post 2

U1250369

I think it means a lane or a passage. In the Midlands we say 'twitchel' to mean a shortcut or walkway


What could a 'snickelway' be?

Post 3

lil ~ Auntie Giggles with added login ~ returned

This is some of the history of York A6377790

And you can walk along the top of the walls smiley - ok


What could a 'snickelway' be?

Post 4

There is only one thing worse than being Gosho, and that is not being Gosho

It certainly sounds to me like some kind of walkway, perhaps between back-to-back rows of terraces. In Liverpool the same kind of passages are called 'entries', and I think maybe 'ginnels' in Sheffield. It's a very narrow (and usually smelly) paved passage between brick walls a little over six feet high with a doorway leading to the back yard of each house in the terrace. If that's what snickelways are, then the walls the character would be walking along are those of the back yards of the houses. And in this case the word 'yard' really means yard - ie a small, usually concrete walled area with an outside lavvy, not the American meaning of the word 'yard', which equates with the British garden.

Is there any more context for us to go on, Sea Change?


What could a 'snickelway' be?

Post 5

Sea Change

All within about three paragraphs he's written:

"Hennessey walked the medieval streets of York..." [description of him buying an art book for snobby reasons]

"Later he lunched at Ye Olde Starre Inn in Stonegate, which he accessed via a short snickelway. He sat snugly under a low beam..." [posh description of him enjoying the art book and its contents, possibly a red herring in addition to establishing that Hennessey is probably not gratuitously snobby]

"He savoured his meal of Cumberland Sausage and strolled back to Mickelgate Bar Police Station, as usual taking the walls instead of the pavement." [the first instance of Peter Turnbull mentioning that there are indeed pavements, which a medieval city might not have]


What could a 'snickelway' be?

Post 6

There is only one thing worse than being Gosho, and that is not being Gosho

In that case a snickelway might be a covered passage - older parts of London are full of them. You'll be walking along a street and suddenly come across what looks like a doorway (but without a door) and a narrow passage perhaps leading to a courtyard surrounded by other buildings, where you're very likely to find a pub.

It sounds like the walls he's walking along aren't anything to do with the passage.


What could a 'snickelway' be?

Post 7

There is only one thing worse than being Gosho, and that is not being Gosho

And one more thing - although a lot of old British cities still retain streets that made up part of their medieval layout, the ancient streets and paths which are now paved, wouldn't have been then. Probably.


What could a 'snickelway' be?

Post 8

Sea Change

Upon further reading, someone has been murdered in a long and narrow snickelway, known to have several corners. It is named, like a street perhaps, and the detectives are thinking that the exits from it would be limited.


What could a 'snickelway' be?

Post 9

walt_smithson

Hi,

Two things, I have never heard of a "snickelway" but in the East Riding of Yorkshire where I grew up a "snicket" was a narrow passage or short cut between two streets, secondly Ye Olde Star Inne in Stonegate, York is accessed by a narrow covered passage about 15 yards long, so it would seem likely that that is the explanation.

Hope this helps smiley - smiley

Walt smiley - ok


What could a 'snickelway' be?

Post 10

Phil

Sounds like it is a small passage between buildings Sea Change. Sometimes they're covered, sometimes they're not. Snikleway is probably the York varient of the name. I was brought up knowing them as ginnels (that's with a hard G as in Girl, rather than the G in Gin). Others know them as snickets, I've even heard them refered to as ten foots (not sure if that's the length or width).

In York you can walk on the old city walls around various parts of the city and it makes for some interesting views you wouldn't get down at street level.


What could a 'snickelway' be?

Post 11

STRANGELY STRANGE ( A brain on a spring )

In wonder if it is anyway related to the term "snuck through" , I know it is a bit American sounding, but slightly similar. As in the sense of "He snuck through the short cut".


What could a 'snickelway' be?

Post 12

Coniraya

Snicket is a term I've heard used many times to describe an alleyway connecting parellel roads, for pedestrians only. In fact there is one I regularly use to cut through to our local shops.


What could a 'snickelway' be?

Post 13

Feisor - -0- Generix I made it back - sortof ...

Here's a picture of a snickelway

http://www.dave-ford.co.uk/Snapshots_Snickelway.htm

This shows a typical York Snickelway, which is an old alleyway, yard or court, hidden behind the rows of shops and buildings.


What could a 'snickelway' be?

Post 14

A Super Furry Animal

>> In wonder if it is anyway related to the term "snuck through" , I know it is a bit American sounding, but slightly similar. As in the sense of "He snuck through the short cut". <<

I think "snuck" is more likely to be a past participle of "sneak". We would say "sneaked through", USians say "snuck through". They're odd like that, USians. The first time I read the word "dove" in an American novel It took me ages to figure out what the sentence meant. I was thinking about smiley - peacedove, not "dived".

RFsmiley - evilgrin


What could a 'snickelway' be?

Post 15

There is only one thing worse than being Gosho, and that is not being Gosho

David Nobbs used the word 'snicket' (several times) in his Reginald Perrin novels, which were set in the Home Counties:

"Reggie walked down Coleridge Close, turned right into Tennyson Avenue, then left into Wordsworth Drive, and down the snicket into Station Road."

And back again:

"The train was eleven minutes late due to signal failure at Vauxhall. Reggie dragged his reluctant legs along Station Road, up the snicket, up Wordsworth Drive, turned right into Tennyson Avenue, then left into Coleridge Close."


What could a 'snickelway' be?

Post 16

Sea Change

This is really cool! Thanks for everyone's help on this so far. I am trying to tie it down as to why the author has chosen to use this particular term out of regionality, because it amuses him to have used a word so obscure the OED hasn't heard of it, or if it's something specific.

I also wonder why the author has chosen such a specialized regionalism, (if it's a real word, since Walt hasn't heard of it.

If Ye Olde Star Inne isn't a fictional invention of the author and is a real place, then Hangpot Lane, Neath is likely a reallife snickelway. Do you remember it as being covered over, Walt? Maybe a covered-over alley is unusual and this is why twitchel and snicket aren't being used here.

smiley - popcorn

Now, of course, I am wondering what would a Lemony Snicket be? Is it narrow urban path that is surrounded by the houseproud and therefore has a strong smell of Pledge? Or, perhaps it's an alley near the bells of St Mary's smiley - musicalnote oranges and lemons smiley - musicalnotesmiley - biggrin


What could a 'snickelway' be?

Post 17

There is only one thing worse than being Gosho, and that is not being Gosho

When you say "the OED hasn't heard of it", do you mean the full Oxford English Dictionary? I was rather surprised to find that my mid-70s Shorter OED doesn't include 'snicket' - a rather common word, I thought.


What could a 'snickelway' be?

Post 18

walt_smithson

Hi

Ye Olde Starre Inn (sp) is a definitely real place I have been in and partaken of the falling down liquid. I am pretty certian that the passageway at the side is covered.


http://www.jiy.freeuk.com/oldstar.htm

http://www.citikey.com/business/10069656/category/30257/city/York/current/72/total/99

I have lived within a 30 mile radious of York all my life, but never in the city itself and I have never heard the word but if it's peculiar to local dialect then maybe I wouldn't.

I don't know anything about John Turnbull but if he's not a local then it may be that on researching the city he came across the word and just liked the feel of it (some words are like that).

I think that maybe "snicket" is derived from sneak it (IE sneak it through this gap) becuase as I understand it a snicket is a narrow passageway as against a ten-foot which is normally wide enough for a vehicle to pass along (normally across the back of terraced houses.

Incidentally you can indeed walk round on the top of the walls at York in fact I think you can walk full circle but I have never tried. smiley - erm

http://www.york.gov.uk/walls/index.html

Regards
Walt smiley - smiley

BTW shouldn't a lemony snicket be covered in little yellow tablets that keep you dancing all night? smiley - blushsmiley - run



What could a 'snickelway' be?

Post 19

Sea Change

I don't know which version of the OED the Los Angeles Public LIbrary has subscribed to, but I am betting it's a relatively good one. The reference librarian I asked first looked it up in the OED, was downright convinced that the word was slang since it wasn't there, looked in some slang dictionaries, and then told me it was made up.

Since all of the helpful Researchers who have answered on this thread are thinking of snickets, ginnells and alleyways, then maybe in the style of a UK crossword:

snick (et) (ginn) el (alley) way.

smiley - alesmiley - alesmiley - ale


What could a 'snickelway' be?

Post 20

Conceited Little Megapuppy - Inbound traveller and Unas Matriarch

Just reviving this conversation - the term is indeed a combination of Snicket, Ginnel and Alleyway. It was 'coined' in 1983 by the author of a fabulous book outlining all the interesting walks you could take around York simply by using all the various Snickets, Ginnels and Alleyways. he condensed the three terms together to create the word 'Snickelway'.

http://www.visityork.org/media/factsheets/Snickleways.asp

'Wish You Were Here' featured the publication he wrote on one of their publications, and Judith Chalmers tried some of the walks. Being only a short train ride away from York at the time, I got a copy of the book myself and had a great day doing the Snickelways. I wasn't the only person that day, either!

I don't know if the book is widely available - it may still be possible to pick up a copy in York itself though. If I recall, it was full of beautiful line drawings, and the text was in calligraphic italic hand. The only problem was that it was quite big, so you did look a bit obvious wandering up and down the Shambles with it.


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