h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Apparently, someone did some experiments, and decided that you couldn't ferment corn within 18 minutes. It must have been thrilling.
I did wonder about the sticks, though. Does it have to be baked in a wood-fired oven? Because how would you work it with modern fuels? Would you have to toss a battery into an electric oven?? And I don't even want to think about coking with gas


I don't know about Mam's cakes. I didn't like to ask, not while she still had the pickaxe in her hands. I definitely think we should leave that to Dai. But thanks for the

Sally

But one would want to avoid fermentation, hence the 18-minute limit. I've made banock over a campfire. That was basically wheat flour slapped together with some water, draped over a stick, and toasted very quickly over the coals. Delicious!

I am glad you have raised this whole question again. Because no one actually answered your question: why wheat? The definition of kosher bread rests on the 5 grains. Is there something different about the kind of bread used for Seder? Is the Seder bread only wheat? If not, then the Church decision re wheat wafers is a house built on sand.

Hi Ani,

From the reading I did, the point of the Seder bread was that it is made from grain that could have fermented, but was not allowed to. Hence the watching from the point of harvest, special storage to avoid dampness and the cooking within 18 minutes. The Seder bread is different because of the strict controls to avoid fermentation. All the things I read were quite clear that it had to be of the 5 grains, any of them. Wheat is usually used, but largely because it is much harder to use any of the other grains. The various comments seemed to suggest that oat or spelt were available, but very expensive.

I didn't find anything that told me how far back these rules went. There were references to the middle ages, but nothing earlier. At least, nothing I'd rely on. The 'lets convince the Jews they should be Christians' type sites aren't necessarily objective.

However, it is very difficult to see any rationale for the Church's position. The bible doesn't say categorically that it was wheat. If it was permissible for any of the grains to be used, you would have expected the exact one to be specified, if it mattered. The Jewish approach to people having health problems appears to be that they should consult with their Rabbi, but the expectation was that they could use a substitute food, to enable them to participate in the ritual. It would seem logical that the church could act in the same way.

When I was pregnant with my first child, I couldn't stand the taste of bread. Communion was awful, and it wasn't actually making me ill. Christmas day that year was on a Monday. Do you know why I remember that? Church on Sunday morning - communion, midnight mass - communion, Christmas morning service - communion. Believe me, it matters.


I can understand the problems about priests with gluten allergies though. If only from practical terms, how could they handle the wafers to hand them to everyone else? But there is also the symbolic role, for a priest at the centre of the community (Is that right? I'm not sure how to express the concept. It extends from the time when the people would receive a few times a year, but usually only the priests would )


I looked up the James Randi site originally quoted. I'm not saying it was trying to be sensational or anything, but the child was described as having a rare disorder. I can think of 3-4 people I know with the same thing, without even trying. That's not rare.

Sally

Thanks for that comprehensive post. I have indeed looked at legitimate jewish websites. Aish dot com. Torah dot org. Judaism 101. And can find nothing which distinguishes the Seder matzvot from the regular matzvot other than the 18-minute limit and of course the cleaning of the house which has a certain name which I forget.

I have been wondering about starting a thread on the jtmb asking this very specific question about the Seder matzvot. However, I notice that rijker has been at it again and folk over there are a little cranky.

I am also waiting for some space to open up in some of my Catholic ask-an-expert sites. I would like to know the Church's reasoning. My experience is that, if the Church is really serious about something, then they set out the reasoning pretty clearly. If they are not that serious, they sometimes get very vague. We'll see.

Yes, I think tossing a battery into an electric oven would be considered an act of good faith. Or perhaps some electrical cord. Gas oven? Dunno, better ask Delwyn about that. The one that has me really flummoxed is the microwave oven.

It would be interesting to know their reasoning. I can't help thinking there must be something more to it.

I'll try asking on the Jewish board. I've generally found that the other boards are OK if you're genuinely asking. (I did get stropped at on the pagan board once, but that was because a 'Christian' poster had set up a username very similar to mine and was making themself unpopular. The pagans were very apologetic when they realised, and I got on quite well with them after that. That's a thought. Haven't been over there for a while)

Sally

Hello Ani

Nothing suspicious about the post being removed ~ it was one of mine and I asked for it to be removed. I had earlier washed down my meds with a large Jamesons so I went a little “Deolali Tap” . The resulting post was complete drivel [ok nothing new there]!

I’m still finding my way round H2G2 – don’t forget I’m a valleys boy and it takes that bit longer for things to sink in – now steam, we understands steam just fine.

Just in case you are still wondering “Pont” means “bridge” in Welsh so Pontardawe is “bridge on the Tawe”; Pontnewydd is “new bridge” etc.

All the best

Dai

Hello Ian

How’s it going. I’ve read your other post ~ it’s still on the second page ~ but I have to admit that I haven’t fully got the hang of navigating messages on H2G2 yet!

I’ve been having the odd sly peek at the CTB and it does appear that there is a much greater degree of latitude with the contents of posts – but I notice that no-one appears to be attempting / succeeding to post anything containing Greek or Hebrew. Perhaps one of the last messages I received from the mods might explain why:

“We originally allowed certain well-known religious phrases onto the
Religion boards. But the inconsistency of this policy with the House
Rules has recently been pointed out, and we are taking steps to
reconsider our lenient position.”

I interpret that as being a clear indication that any and all non-English words will be prohibited ~ I blame myself for this more stringent application of the rules so sorry everyone.

I wonder how the mods will handle typo-graphical errors or errors in spelling?
Is “Bach” the name of a composer, misspelled “back” or Welsh “little”?

Hey Ho such is life. Anyway I’m still too busy with refurbishing the institute in time for the grand reopening. Last night disaster struck as Delwyn’s deep fat fryer went quantum after Schrödinger’s fell in - so we’ve got to re-artex his atrium [Delwyn’s not the cat’s – there’s a degree of uncertainty about what/where/when happened to the cat]! Not a pretty sight.

All the best

Dai

Bore da, Dai. Or dia duit. Sorry to barge in.

Re <>:

Sally and I figured that one out! You seem to have gotten yourself trapped on this 'home again' thread. There are quite a few other threads now. Plus bonus: JontheFarmer (a Welsh ex-patriot) and Andy McLean-Reid (AMR) have joined us! Pondero showed up briefly and asked if he was welcome. I said certainly he was welcome but that I was aware of some hurt feelings between himself and yourself and I would really prefer if he made some gestures of reconciliation. I also asked that he not confine his chats to me, but also include the others. Haven't heard back.

Now to get to the other threads: See the googly eyes at the top of my message? Beside that is the link to my space. Click the link.

That gets you to my space. Somewhere on the upper right there should be a button saying something like 'add to friends.' If you click that, then my link appears on your space (toward the bottom) from that point forward.

Now if you scroll down to the bottom of my space, then you will find my list of friends. You can click on each of those and then click on 'add to friends' when you get to each of the other spaces.

Once you get to my space, you will also notice a list of all the other threads. Struck gold! If you post to each of those threads, then ALL the threads will display on your space from that point forward.

Other than that, posting does seem less intuitive than on the ctmb. My replies do not appear after the post I am replying to, but only at the end of the thread. I am happy here though.

Re <>:

Yesterday's Left Behind Parade thread is really quite extraordinary. Not only were we able to post French and Latin, but Eliezer went completely off the deep end posting some fantasy language. Eliezer has little patience with the Mods. He has worked out a timetable for when the most legalistic Mod reports for duty. That way, he can post Hebrew and not be pulled.

Re <>:

What on earth does that mean? Is that English? it seems to me that they are simply disallowing anything that is not English. Methinks the Mod dissembles.

Re <>:

Don't take it on. Apology not accepted. Turned back at the border. It is stupid not to allow Greek, Latin, and Hebrew on the Christian Topic board. The Mods are perfectly able to figure out a strategy to monitor such usage. For the interim, I suggest the following: before posting a furrin lengwitch, one can email the Mods explaining the borrowed terminology. It's worked for me before. If enough of us do that, then the Mods will have to do something to solve the situation. Either that or continue to field the barrage of 'explanations' every day. Which they will not want to do. The whole thing just 'feel's highhanded to me.

I've always wanted to ask you: Is Delwyn a virtual twin? What is artex? I've always wanted to have an atrium. It seems the most logical thing to do to create an interior landscape for the Canadian winter. ah, well, Ani. Dream on. Does Delwyn really have an atrium? Or are you just calling that expanse between his house and the outdoor loo an atrium? That's not an atrium, you know. It's a path.

Don't worry about the cat. He'll be fine as long as you don't open his box. DO NOT OPEN HIS BOX! Well, if you have any scientific inquiry about this instruction, consider this: Cross and Blackwell tinned cake. They CALL it cake. But is it? Speaking of cake: Ian and his lads have developed the very curious (and macho) custom of consuming sweet cake with their homebrewed beer. The poor lads suffer through a new cake every week. Apparently it has to be a sweet cake and not a savoury cake. They are desperately unhappy about their cakes, yet don't seem to be able to stumble upon a suitable recipe. What are those cakes that Mam makes? I think Ian would be thrilled to have that recipe.

You haven't been helpful about the three questions. Which one is in dispute? All the best, Ani.

Dia duit Dai. Thanks for letting us know that you have self-Modded your own post. Totis drivelis?

We don't understand steam over here in the True North. Everything runs by dog sled, even my computer.

I am glad to know that pont means bridge. Odd the way French crept in. I suppose I am going to have to have another conversation with my linguist cousin in London now. Well, I haven't given him the chance to overwhelm me with his scholarship for quite a few months now. I suppose it's time. Sigh.

Toodle-oo. Ani.

Hello Sally

So there's another Dai in your life ! How could you especially now Tim is away in forn climes. Tell him not to drink the water or it might set that stone off again. My aunt Mabel took that advice to extremes and used to clean her teeth with the contents of a small bottle of Worthington's - sort of combining business with pleasure .

All the best

Dai

Dai et al. Re <>

I have the really creepy feeling that the ctmb mods have programmed their computer to turn back any posts containing the names of London Underground stations. It's spooky.

But I have already figured out a way around it. Hidey ho, twiddly dum...

Well, I asked on the Jewish board. Eliezer suggested someone to look up, but I haven't done that yet. Still reading through the thread.

Sally

Thanks Sally. I'll check out the jtmb. Slink slink.

Dai, yes there has been an odd sort of freedom, the reason that there may be no Greek or Hebrew, is that it is likely that few have your grasp of these langauges.

I am in tow minds on the CTMB, as I get bored to tears with a lot of what Ani has named troll posts, and even more amased that folk seemingly have a different view on Christianity to me, that they are there to be walked all over.

Anyway that's that of my chest.

It is interesting to see that they are reviewing their policy, it could be mainly due to the fact the Mods don't trust the posters, and don't have the ability or resources to check out Greek and Hebrew.

Funnily enough, I've recent posted bothe Latin and Spanish phrases, and they've stayed in.

I suspect the mods are generally on the side of the poster but cannot if they cannot discriminate the meaning puul the plug is the safest option, well at least for one mod.

Do you use email, if you do there are several hints on getting in touch with timnsal.Communications care of delwyn.

I would be most interested to get to know you a bit better.

Ian

Hello Ian

I'm truly mystified by the machinations of the CTB mods. How are they qualified to be mods. As Ani has already commented they appear to be incapable of writing grammatically correct English so what hope Koine, Hebrew or Latin! Perhaps the current lack of buttons on the CTB might explain a great deal of their apparent laxity.

Still best not get bitter and twisted.

Yes I do use email. I've checked out the timnsal dot com site so I suspect it might be delwyn "at" to email them/you? I'm not sure about the H2G2 protocol for publishing email addresses. More investigation necessary.

All the best

Dai

Hello Ani

Come on reveal all ~ it might be the means of using Koine on the CTB!

All the best

Dai

Dai,

Investigate away. If Ani and Ian could manage it...

I think you are allowed to post email addresses here, it's just that Ani's enjoying the cloak and dagger stuff so much, and I hadn't the heart to spoil her fun.

Sally

Hello Sally

Very Criptic. Oh well I've tried to send an email so I'll wait and see.

All the best

Dai

PS When is Tim bach from forn climes?

Today I posted something to Ian on the Left Behind thread. I used the term je ne sais quoi. But I mispelled sais as said. So I added a second post which correctly set out je ne said quoi.

The Mods pulled the first post, asking me to remove je ne sais quoi, which I did. I replaced je ne sais quoi with (french quote) and reposted.

The Mod pulled it again, saying that it was inappropriate.

The second post saying je ne sais quoi is still, as far as know, there.

It is the inconsistent reinforcement that gets me. I think I am being indoctrinated.