h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

The power-cuts of the 70s were formative in my perception that we are skating on ice as thin as a miniscus (thinner, when the ice-caps melt of course), and I have always felt nervous whenever I have lived in accomodation with a single power-source.

My ideal house would have gas for cooking, heating and hot water, electricity for light, heating and hot water, electricity generators for light & hot water during power cuts, oil for heating and hot water, and an open fire place with a back burner for - er - heating and hot water. Ok, I exaggerate rather a lot there and I don't even like a particularly warm house, but I do like redundant systems, and I really really dislike single points of failure.

I am now buying a place on my ownio with its own roof and - hopefully - its own garden. So I could install solar panels on the roof, or possibly a wind-generator in the garden. F**k the greenness, I like the idea of hnot having to throw out the contents of my deep-freeze because of powercuts. Not admirable, but - hey.

One half of the roof faces south and is ideal in solar panel terms because it is unoverlooked and unshadowed.

Now... there seem to be three options for solar roof panels:

Ones which heat your water thereby reducing (in my case) my gas bills. I am not sure if they also provide central heating, but that would be pretty pointless in the summer, wouldn't it?

Ones which generate electricity during the day, with any surplus being sold to the national grid.

Ones which generate electricity during the day, with any surplus being stored in batteries.

I rather like the idea of my electricity bill being one where I bill them, (though in practice it just reduces your bill, rather than putting it in credit), but I also rather like the idea of having endlessly renewable batteries and simply not noticing if there's a power cut. But hot water's cool too.

They all come with financial pros and cons - grants are available, which system is best depends on the state of your roof, etc etc etc - but I am trying to work out *why* I want to do this before I start working out how much it will cost me per month in loan repayments compared with how much it will save me in fuel bills.

B

Perhaps because it gives one a sense of doing whatever you can as an individual to work against the damage that has been done so far? That's how I'd feel about it, I think. I don't consider individual effort to be futile; it takes all of us as individuals to do whatever we can.

I'm no scientist, but I'm pretty sure we can't "reverse" the effects of what has been done to the environment so far - certainly not in the short term - but installing solar panels is exemplary in a similar way to recycling everything you possibly can; just because the 'majority' haven't started doing it yet doesn't mean it's not a good idea.

The storing power in batteries option appeals to me, but it depends on the capacity of the batteries and whether they need to be replaced on a regular basis, like rechargeable batteries? Like I said, I'm no

I can also see why selling excess power to the national grid appeals. Very satisfying after having been dependent on their services for years.

Good luck with whatever decision you come to - and congrats on getting that place of your own.

All very grand ideas you have there Ben.
For some practical ideas on what is feasable and places to start looking, you can do a lot worse than visit the Centre for Alternative Technology website - http://www.cat.org.uk - their information service section have some free info and links (they also have written several books on how to do it yourself).

Have you thought that you might have enough roof area to do both solar water heating and photovoltaics? (of course this is all dependent on the particular systems used).

Independance? Self sufficiency? We're very dependant on infrastructure, even if we spread ourselves around and have redundant systems like you say. Before you know it, you'll be keeping chickens and growing your own pigs a la the Good Life... That's a good thing by the way, of course. If you establish the commune of Ben, I'll sign up.

I'd love it if my landlord invested in some solar panels for our building instead of just renting out the top roof (we have two rooftop levels) to mobile phone companies to put up their ugly and possibly dangerous antenaes (sp?).

Here in Seville there are sunny days for something like 85-90% of the year - it would certainly make sense for everyone here to switch to solar power and use electricity and/or gas as a back-up.

Not sure about keeping chickens up there - they'd probably bake before they got old enough to eat


az

This might interest you.
http://www.narec.co.uk/technologies-domestic-generationl.php

I worked with the Technical Director in his previous life.

Cool links.

The reluctance to rely on a single power source has been a constant in my life, Phil, and even when married we had bottled gas, oil, electricity and solid fuel. The greenness is a side-benefit to be honest. I'm not naive enough to think I could be self-sufficient.

Let me rephrase that.

I am far to lazy to ever attempt to be self-sufficient!

I'll take an amble through the websites though.

Cheers

B

For more local info try the Alternative Technology Centre in Hebden Bridge - http://www.alternativetechnology.org.uk/index.htm and the Yorkshire Renewable Energy Network - http://www.yren.org.uk/
They might be able to point you to some people who have these types of systems installed where you can get the real pros and cons of living with them.

Did you get hit with any power glitches during the storms last week? Talking to my parents they were without power for a couple of hours and we had a bit glitch here (I was told that one of the villages just up the road were out for half an hour).

Really, Ben, it seems to me that you've already answered your initial question yourself. Your interest in solar power stems from a desire to implement a redundant system. Of the three options you listed, the only one that represents a redundant system is battery storage.

Using it to heat your water isn't really a redundancy. If the power goes out, you've still got hot water, and little else. But if you've got stored electricity, you've got pretty much anything you need... light, heat, refrigeration, cooking, entertainment, telephone, etc.

Of course, that really all depends on how much capacity the batteries have and how long they'll last under various loads.

Oh well, I wasn't really expecting you to start birthing cows anytime soon sort of thing, to be fair. But it does smack of taking a little bit of control back. 'Course, so does the redundancy thing, but this you are firmly in the driving seat, no?

Plus, it sounds cool. I can't think why my Dad, the gadget freak, hasn't had a go. He fitted dynamos to our bikes when we were kids to power the bike lights. You had to get up a real speed when it was dark to avoid being run into, I'll tell you that much... But it was a cool idea.

We've got two solar panels on the roof for heating water - and while it really isn't adding redundancy (for one thing, the circulation of the system probably is rather dependent on power for a pump), it does feel very much like "a right thing"

We got it installed N years back when the central oil heating needed replacement. We switched to gas and then added the solar heating. At the time, the best guess was that over the investment period, it was a toss whether you saved a little or spent a little. I believe that energy costs and taxes hasn't exactly gone down - si it's probably one the right way for once, economically speaking.

And then, again, it does feel nice and green

That's cool Santra! You are the first person I know who's got real live solar panels.

I'll track down the place in Hebden Bridge. I am only about 7 miles away from there, even as I type, so it shouldn't be too hard to get over there.

Blatherskite, you are right, I have answered my own question, but I haven't looked at the money side of things yet, which may open the whole thing up again.

B

- well, actually, with all the sun we're having at the moment, the water's warm

This post has been removed.

A post we can't see. Oh well maybe it wouldn't have been that interesting to read anyways.

Still back to the subject to hand...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/4374748.stm
An article asking can you make money from a domestic wind turbine.

It was Tig who posted that, so you're right... it wasn't that interesting.

That's only about saving money, though, not making it.

I believe there's a kind of turbine you can fit to your gas central heating boiler which generates electricity from your spare convective heat and pumps it back into the grid. I seem to recall that there are some legal/bureaucratic reasons why you can't supply it backto yourself and/or make your supply meter run backwards.

I wonder if there are any obstacles to connecting domestic wind turbines to the grid?

Alternately...connecting it to one of these sounds like an attractive option: http://www.worldchanging.com/archives/002515.html

As long as the setup is certified safe by a sparky there is no reason why you shouldn't use a domestic power station for your own electric needs (and the saftey certificate probably only is needed for insurance purposes).
You can connect these to the grid, subject to meeting whatever the regulations are. The house would then have two meters - one with electric going out and one with electric coming in.

I recollection is sketchy...but maybe the barrier is to do with power companies forcing you to sell power generated from 'their' gas back to them at cost, so they can sell it on at profit?

I also seem to recall that you can get government grants for the boiler thingies.

If your concern was to save money, though - the best bet would be to have your sparks wire it up to your supply. That way you save retail price + VAT. I wonder if you're allowed to do that *and* sell the surplus?

that was what I was trying to say.
Domestic power stations usually are of small scale renewable type things - solar, wind, hydro and so other than the initial costs you're not paying much anually for the energy they create so selling it back is a good idea if/when you can.