h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Platonic detachment ???? Thank You Beeline !!! I have been working my way towards that for a very long time...

But to give you a more serious reply : I think nationalism, racism, gender-ism(?!), etcetera are a complete waste of my time and I wish people would stop going on about it. However, we do not live in a perfect world, let alone MY perfect world so....

As you said there is no solution to this problem(yet?) and I don't think that the issue will be resolved on an internet-forum, not even an h2g2-forum. What it can do is completely destroy the sense of camaraderie that has started to develop here at h2g2.
It is a bit akin to meeting a great girlfriend(or boyfriend of course) and ruining the possible relationship by talking about controversial subjects(politics, religion, you name it). It might be more sensible to get to know eachother better first by talking about fun-things.

This thread shows me that the researchers on h2g2 are getting to know each other, but not well enough yet. So, letting this thread continue may turn out to be quite damaging for the whole community because it can be a decisive reason for people to start evading forums, just 'because he/she is on it'.

Do we want that ?

TM.

PS. note that I do not say that the subject or any of the expressed opinions are right or wrong. I only comment on the quality of the discussion.

All of a sudden this place has hotted up!
Wow, I'll read all the new stuff later I think.

If people are locked out because of abusive language or insulting other people...I think that maybe they locked out the wrong person.

As a newbie to this lovely site, I thought I should say how unsettling this thread is. I know no-one here, although I'm getting to know people, and seeing this feud seethe and boil on a community site which I thought was great in principle has severely dampened my enthusiasm.
For the record, I am hopelessly opinionated, and have offended / been offended by many people in my life, but I know when to stop. This thread crossed that line a long time ago. It's bad enough having homophobic teenagers inhabiting the forums without personal slurs and deliberate insults and return-insults.
***I agree completely with Towelmaster's reproach. Please, please stop this.***

I have just spent the better part of 2 hours reading the most ignorant and abrasive forum I have ever seen at H2G2!

Shame on all of you!

Give up TM.....no one in here is listening......you too Sporky and Monsy.....and all of you I can't remember who had calmer heads. I have seen valiant efforts on all sides to curb this pile of cow dung, but these folks would rather argue.......leave them to it.

At the risk of getting involved...which I won't....I will ignore this tasteless piece of crud when I'm through saying my piece.....I will offer my opinions. And they are MINE!

We, in the US have a bad disease.....it's called "political correctness". Offending ANYONE is a high crime around here! Welcome to modern idiocy! Those who don't recognise differences in cultures and/or are unable to withstand outside critisism or humor are doomed to be ostrasised by worldwide society.(forgive my spelling......)

This is not to say that Loonytoonz or Amanda P do not have a point. The point is....Amanda had a problem with Loony, and everybody had to jump in the bandwagon!.....It's between them, people! It's none of our business!

You have turned, what appeared to me, as a personal complaint, into a major foray! A place to air your own personal beliefs!

Did any of you read the post above mine from the newbie? Congratulations......they were impressed!

Loony.....I've known you since I got here.....Amanda, I've known you since you got here. Both of you I consider friends of mine. I do not wish to take sides....but(yeah......that word.....it means my comment has a "disclaimer"...welcome to the US!) Amanda, if you don't like what Loony has to say, don't go to his page or forums he's in. Kinda' like the TV...if you don't like the show, change channel or turn it off!

But I digress....that is not my arguement. That is between the two of you.

I actually am not disappointed in the two of you, but in the idiots who joined the foray later. You two started out with an honest beef with an honest response, and would have worked out your differences....were it not for the "rable rousers".

I realise my opinions are more fuel for the fire....but that's OK...I'll not be back here anyway....so I won't know. Ya'll have fun with the "food fight"!

NM

Just to remind you all, we are all here because of a Book which in the opening chapter pokes fun at the English. Yet we all laughed at it. I personally having spent some time looking through this thread feel everybody needs to find a forget button and leave this subject alone. Those involved seem to be constantly defending themselves, why not just give them all a chance to start afresh.

LOL

DD

Anybody who is offended by anything in the following posting should be aware that I am not here. Peta will confirm that I can't possibly be here because my account has been suspended.

Anything you still can't cope with is therefore your own problem.

Welcome to the new blood and thank you for a much needed breath of fresh air. Some of us have been getting caught up in a cycle of abuse and you're right in saying that it's time to stop.

I know I'm not the only one who has found it educational, if not entertaining, to see this develop from a complaint to a flame war. But most of the protagonists are now just restating their positions and exchanging jibes and I don't think I'm contributing much any more. For the record I've emailed Amanda and offered an olive branch, of sorts. I haven't apologised, and don't expect her to apologise to me, but we can agree to differ without being rude to each other any longer - or enter into a dialogue if she wishes. Either way I'm not going to harass her any further.

Well done to Beeline, even if you are in the 'enemy' camp, for pointing out that the issue of what is offensive and what isn't needs to be resolved. I hope to see much more debate from the newcomers, although I'll try and sit on my hands while reading them.

On the subject of newcomers, it grieves me that newbie English Ben has been put off by what he has found here. This is an ace's home page and there are many aces involved in this argument. Good on yer, Ben, for speaking out. By way of commiseration, here's a quote from Peta in an email to me last year: "We can't control what researchers say. It is sometimes difficult for new people to edge into a pre-existing conversation. But it is exactly the same in the pub."

So welcome to the pub, Ben, and apologies to anyone who doesn't drink or feels that conversation isn't about shouting to be heard in a room full of incoherent people. This posting is me figuratively stepping outside for a breath of fresh air - or being pulled out by the bouncers.

My account has been suspended and I am not allowed to post anything to the guide for 7 days. This is because "You've caused offence to a number of researchers,". I have emailed Peta requesting clarification but I'm not contesting the judgement or appealing for clemency.

Most of you, even the New Zealanders, are bright enough to notice that it hasn't worked. This goes to show that "constructive restraint" is like censorship - it doesn't work. I'm still here and I want to ask 3 questions of anybody who cares to answer:

1. I have offended a number of researchers, but have also seen many expressions of support for me. Amanda, who has her own supporters, has also offended a number of people and the Loony started this off by offending a number of people. Have all these people also been subject to attempts at silencing them?

2. The rules have been enforced, but to be effective the rules need to BE SEEN to be enforced equally and fairly. In all developed civilisations the operation of the law is a transparent, accountable, process and all convictions are a matter of public record. Shutting me down while I slept is the internet equivalent of sending the boot boys round in the middle of the night. Why has there been no announcement?

3. The punishment/deterrent has patently not worked, and cannot be made to work. If laws are not enforceable, some other mechanism has to be found to preserve order. How can people like the loony be prevented from offending Amanda in future?

Hope this stimulates some interesting debate, but would it be too much to suggest that this is not the place for it. Could somebody start a "home page" for the discussion? I can't because a) I'm hopelessly biased and b) I'm not allowed to be here.

My earlier plea for sanity was a mite emotional, but I intended it to be so. I lived as an Englishman in America for a year, and found the majority of Americans [just like the majority of Brits, or any nationality] to be great people. Thus, it pains me to see anyone 'having a go' at anyone else over this subject, and the unpleasant fall-out, such as a banning from h2g2. And I hate nationalism in all its forms...
BTW, cheers for the welcome to the pub! Mine's a !

Welcome to H2G2, English Ben. At the risk of being considered an hypocrite, I had to come in and say to you I have never seen a forum like this one in H2G2 before. Disaggreements do happen, but I've never seen it get this " out of hand".

Please, do not take this thread as a normal thing in this site! While I have never learned to make the drink you have produced on your entry, can I offer you one of Monsys' fishies? Exteamly potent, with no mess and no bother!

NM

Yes...I agree with NM, welcome to the club and this is one of the worst places to start...check out www.h2g2.com/U45152 for some more interesting topics than this...

To anyone else : I am flattered by the fact that you are confirming the points I made before : This forum is going nowhere and as I said before : IT CAN HAVE A BAD INFLUENCE on every newbie around if not a bad influence on all members...

TM.

P.S. As NM suggested I will not respond to anything but serious responses. My time is valuable.

Look at it like this:

You invite some guests to your home for a party. A disagreement starts up. One of your guests seems to enjoy this disagreement. They even encourage it. A number of your other guests complain about this particular person. Maybe they complain about others as well but they've really complained about this particular person. Would you, as host, tell the majority of your guests that they just have to live with it or would you ask this person to leave?

Peta is the host of this party. She decided to ask you to leave because you have offended some of her guests. That's basically the long and short of it. TDV makes the rules and Peta enforces them as she sees fit. As I've heard others say, if you don't like it, leave. That's all I can tell you.

As many others before me have said, let this one go folks! It's doing more harm than good!!

T.U.

TM.

I'm with you RocketRod! Croc-wrestling sounds much safer than this minefield. I'll just pack my coolie and we'll be off.

(Before anyone flames me 'coolie' refers to my cool bag - a receptacle for keeping the beers cold -and is not meant to refer to any person or race from this planet - living or dead)

Terms and conditions are located at http://www.h2g2.com/beware.of.the.leopard.cgi

I really shouldn't add this, but in Towelmaster's above post, the words "flattered" and "INFLUENCE" lined up in that odd way and my eyes went funny for a sec, and for a second I thought it said "flatulence".

Which of course is nothin' but hot air.

*******

**** * **** ***** ****** ********* * *********.

*** *** ******* the ******** ********?

*** a ****!

(Edited for offensive material)

I'm trying to think of what to say . . .
(and wondering if I should say anything)

Okay -- for anyone who isnt fed up with this, a few points.

1. Americans -- you really do have a problem laughing at yourselves sometimes, evidence of this is the American Micheal Moore's show The Awful Truth that poked fun at all things American was BANNED in America -- and had to come here to Canada to be aired.

2. Amanda -- and all others have a right to stand up and say -- dont make fun of us -- it is offensive. Much applause there. As a person of colour -- I know how it can feel and it is awful.


3. In law there is something called mens rea (sp?) it means guilty mind -- and (theoretically)you have to have it to be held responsible for something. Did Grahame offend, obviously. Did he mean too, no -- so quit slagging him. His comment on woman supporting you was descriptive -- if it was mostly men surrounding you he would have called it the brotherhood -- so what of it. Would he then mysoandristic? As for the Strag -- mens rea all the way -- he uses offense as a conversation sparker -- look it worked. Is he wrong, sure he is -- he knows it, hell he is proud of it.

4. Since when to American's have the Monopoly on Red-necks .. there are many here as well. And for that matter, since when are American's all rednecks .. I really cant see where your offense was coming from, I mean I did look too.

5. The only four things I got really offended with in this thread were Strags slagging of Peta, Amanda's jab at immigrants (I hope you have a work permit, if not thanks for raising my taxes) someone using the term feminazi and someone using the work Pollack.

6. You all yelling down the same well -- you all want complete freedom without consequence. Well congradulations .. you have it .. this thread is now exactly like real life -- full of hate and bile.
Pat yourselves all on the back. Sure, we all need to express our opinions -- but when you say "think before you post" and then post something about someone to their homepage calling them a mysogynist or acting a high and mighty and laughing down the other's opinion, it just makes you look like a big hypocritical idiot. That goes equally for people on both sides of this discussion and me as well!!

7. Lighten up, jeepers!

8. Because it bears repeating: LIGHTEN UP, JEEPERS!

9. This is prolly the most interesting thing I have read on h2g2, but in a worryingly viscious kind of way.

10. I think it is time for hugs and chocolates now.

~Beeblefish (Wandering Through the Fray, Whistling)

4. Since when

I was mostly male-ish the last time I checked it, thank you Amanda

This thread is way to offensive to me, I think I'll leave now, before I say something I'd might regret.

I agree with... somebody (was it Towelmaster?), this is originally between Amanda, Loony, and perhaps Peta as the "official", and perhaps it's better if the rest of us just pulls out and leave them to save the spoils.

I apologize, Beeblefish, but in the context in which it was stated I felt secure that the use of that word would not be found offensive.

That's okay Sporky -- I was tired and a bit edgy and know now that no offense was meant!

I accept your appology and now we can both get on with our lives.

SEE! NOW HOW HARD WAS THAT, HONESTLY?

~Beeblefish

I know that a lot of people have been upset by all this, and a lot of you still feel the need to tell us to stop.

We stopped a while ago, and said so, but some of you seem not to have noticed.

For the record Amanda and I are engaged in constructive, one to one, dialogue. If people need to have a nice therapeutic yell before they can do that I still say it's better than bottling things up. There are important issues here, and they need to be addressed in a public debate, but you lot restating your position(s) that you are fed up with this is no different than what you're complaining of in us.

This situation is being resolved amicably and reasonably. This would have happened without input from Peta. Reading the riot act clouded the issue and complicated things because it made people start pointing fingers and say "You shouldn't do that", regardless of the validity of the person's argument. That's why I told Peta to "can it."

If Peta has a problem with that she's perfectly capable of telling me so, but the only reason given for suspending my account is that I have offended "researchers" - plural, and a definition that excludes Peta. I am not the only one guilty of this and I say again that the law should be enforced equally, or not at all.

Nice try, btw, Peta - but not good enough. I'm still here so please reply to my email and explain yourself because you're just making a mockery of the process.