h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Entry: The Saggar makers bottom knocker - A87806046
Author: Dr Anthea - Artist, Assassin, Potter..? - U203430

a very very short entry

I thought we had an entry on this already, but I can't find an Edited one.

I did find A55694 though. Would any part of that be useful?


Geggs

This is a lovely little article.

But it makes me want more. Either a rather longer article on the potteries, or a kind of compedium of weird titles for jobs that have long since vanished.

For me this conjures up the unforgettable appearance of such a person on "What's my Line?". A classic piece of nostalgic TV even to this day.

Can't find it on Youtube unfortunately, but there's this. Not suitable for inclusion in the entry, I would say.

http://youtu.be/XuKdTIrjdo8

Sorry, but it made me chuckle. Ridiculously sexist.

Anyway Anthea, as you say, it's short. As someone who doesn't know anything about this, I feel it starts in the middle. Perhaps you could just add a couple of words about

- what/where are "the potteries"
- you say "this was not the only odd name... " - what period are we talking about here? In the sixties, as I say, a saggar-maker's bottom-knocker famously appeared on television, so if there aren't any more these days, did all these professions only die out recently?

And, reading this as someone who doesn't know much about it, apart from the little pottery I did for O-level art, for me there is even some mysterious jargon in the definitions which could do with definitions of their own:

What exactly does a "thrower" do?
What is "biscuit stage china"
Who are the "presser and caster"? - who exactly smooths out the rough edges?

You really know a lot about pottery and "pottering". It will be nice to see more on this subject.

Should it be "saggar maker's bottom knocker"?

And you have both "saggar" and "sagger". Which is it?

Actually, I always thought it was "sagger", so I'll be interested to see the answer to this.

Hmmmm

I have just found this: http://www.thepotteries.org/bottle_kiln/saggar.htm

As it is from the potteries direct, I think we can accept that "saggar" is the right spelling. What on earth is the etymology of that?

Rummage rummage rummage....

It seems that it is a corruption - possibly - of the word "safeguard"

http://www.potters.org/subject80461.htm/

As with everything, the more you look at something, the deeper you get into the subject.

An article that gets to the bottom of the subject without sagging...

<BB<

darn I thought I had corrected all the saggers to saggars
I shall go and expunge them now,

as for other strange job names, yes that would be fun but I think it would have to be collaborative which may require an ask thread

I suppose I could start on that if the others think its a good idea, it would certainly make a longer entry

I don't think there's a problem with short entries as long as they say what needs to be said.

I found this blog: http://philsrogers.wordpress.com/2011/11/06/id-rather-be-a-saggar-makers-bottom-knocker-than-a-one-legged-dancer/ which is based on someone's visit to a Potteries museum.

It makes one interesting point. The Bottom Knocker was paid directly by the Saggar Maker, rather than being an employee of the Pottery.

Nowadays we assume that there is a company which pays everybody and controls everything. If there is a need for Bottom Knockers, then that would be a job separate from the Saggar Maker job.

But in this case, the Saggar Maker is subcontracting part of his work out to the Bottom Knocker. This explains why the Bottom Knocker's full title is Saggar Maker's Bottom Knocker.

A question: is "Jigger and Jollier" a single person or two different people?

Fleshing it out with descriptions shouldn't make it too long an Entry

lil x

I also think you could say something at the start along the lines of:

'The Potteries' is the area around Stoke-on-Trent, England. A pottery industry started there long before the Industrial Revolution, and the English language evolved in the locality to include many specialist words.

You could end by telling us whether there are still Saggar Maker's Bottom Knockers employed around Stoke. Have they been all replaced by automatic machinery?

jiggers make plates and shallow "flatware" jolliers make deep bowls and cups etc but the machine is the same just with different attachments so I assume it just depended on what you were making

When I get back to the UK I will take a good look at this Anthea. My father knows everything there is to know about the history of pottery manufacturing in the Potteries. I can also find some great images for this too.

Can't wait to see Lanza's Bottom Knockers pictures.

Great entry - well done. In fact, I'm seriously jealous I didn't think of writing it.

I'd use Gnomon's and Lanzababy's suggestions, but try to keep it succinct. I don't really 'need' to know what these people did in every last detail, just enough to convince me the jobs are genuine, and how the unusual titles came about.

Icy

ok I'll start on the changes soon

Pottery is probably one of our oldest industries, going back thousands of years, so I definitely think you should say when and where these phrases were used. That was the first question in my mind after reading the entry.

My kind of Entry.

Get in.

Dr Anthea, are you going to make the suggested changes to this entry?

There are a few typos to be ironed out too, but it would be good to know if you've included all the information you intended to.