A Conversation for Talking Point: Homelessness
HOMELESSNESS
Stephen Started conversation Oct 3, 2002
This really is a hugely complex subject! As I see it there are 2 reasons why people are homeless. Bad Luck and Bad Management, though there is a huge grey area in between.
The first category includes those who are managing fine and then something beyond their control happens to change all that. They get ill, have an accident, get divorced perhaps...any number of things. Most carry on managing, of course, though usualy at a lower level. A few can't. Whats the solution? Relatives? Friends? Charities? The userers (someties euphemistically known as the Financial Serices Sector)? The State? All of them I suppose, in some combination. Most will get straight in time. A few won't. Nearly all will suffer.
The second includes those who for whatever reason (lack of character, long-term illness - mental or physical - disinclination even)have not been able to manage their lives. Some are completely incapable of self-care: more become so through alcohol or drugs, their only solace in otherwise unbearable situations. Some find people to look after them - relatives usually - some charities. The State - here in UK anyway - doesn't do a lot for them. I guess fewer of the people in this group make it back on their own; some must. Most of them suffer a lot.
The fact is that most of us prefer to ignore the problem; yet we like to believe we are civilised beings. Most of us too have a fear of the people we see sleeping on the streets or begging or asking for help or whatever; almost as if they were a different, dangerous,malicious species. God alone knows why! The vast majority are so weak and vulnerable as to be utterly harmless. They may smell, get drunk on whatever they can get, shout a bit sometimes but then wouldn't you!
We can help too, if we want to!
It may not be any use to you but buy the wretched paper. It helps.
So the guy/girl might spend your quid on cider (or worse) but (s)he might buy food. Give! Its better than doing nothing.
The truth is that as a species we are not civilised enough to cope with the problem humanely and not, thank God, savage enough to do so otherwise. Mostly anyway.
Just one further, random thought: homeless people may be badly off here (Western Europe or the US, say). Think how much worse things are in, say Tanzania or - these days - Zimbabwe to give just 2 examples. Although there is often a sense of community among the poor that provides at least some sort of off set.
It's a complex issue!
Homelessness
friendlywithteeth Posted Oct 4, 2002
Have you read the Big Issue? It's quite a good magazine!
Also, did you know that the BI is now more than just a British phenomenom, and there are streetpapers in USA, India, amoungst others...
Homelessness
turvy (Fetch me my trousers Geoffrey...) Posted Oct 4, 2002
There is a third type that the press and politicians (I did spell this poli_tit_ians... a Freudian slip, perhaps?) pick up on... the cynical exploiter.
One case that comes to mind was the guy who drove his VW Golf to Sheffield, left it in a multi-storey car park and then begged in a subway nearby.
People become distrustful and a little more harsh because of the publicity this type of event gets.
The Big Issue is a worthwhile investment as the sellers are generally being helped to help themselves (essential in my view).
turvy
Living a not too guilt-ridden lifestyle.
Homelessness
friendlywithteeth Posted Oct 5, 2002
Theres currently a rumour going round my town that one of the homeless women actually has a house, but it's these kind of rumours that undermine their situation.
Homelessness
Researcher PH Balance Posted Oct 7, 2002
Actually, there are those who make a living begging and do have a house and nice things. I forget the numbers but you can make a LOT of money as a beggar. They are the ones who do a disservice for those who are really homeless. I remember a lady who lived near me who had a neck brace. She would take it off when she was near home and put it on farther away and then beg...later she got a boyfriend and he would do the same thing (I think it was probably the same neckbrace)...and it was a NICE apartment area, rent being at least $1600 american dollars a month-so, they weren't struggling.
But really, I think people feel a lot of guilt because most of us really only give change to people to make them go away. We don't know where the person has been, what they've been touching. We're not sure if their ice heads or mental hospital runaways. But, hey, you never know if they're a drunk rock star needing some change to call his limo driver.
I think, if you want to feel better by giving money then go for it but don't judge others because they don't-maybe they really don't have change.
I know I sound hard hearted, but I'm really not. Some of my close relatives have been homeless for "legitimate" reasons and for "illegitimate" reasons. Place whatever meanings you want to within the quotations. Whatever the reasons, it was hard to visit them (one whole family was living on the beach...partly for political reasons and mostly because they didn't have a house...and they wouldn't accept help. Now they are fine and one of the daughters just graduated from West Point Military Academy.) But for the others, the family could only do so much for them, the rest really was up to them...but thankfully all of my family have survived homelessness and are doing fairly well now.
However, the thing it comes down to is comfort level (this is back to non-family). If you feel comfortable then do give money or buy them a meal. If you don't, but you feel major guilt, then just put money into an organization that helps the homeless. They are all, most likely, non-profit and desparately in need of monetary donations or volunteers, but that's supposing that you can afford to or feel comfortable to.
Anyhow, that's just my 2 pennies worth.
(Whew, that was a lot longer than I expected sorry!)
Homelessness
Toxxin Posted Oct 9, 2002
FwT, you get everywhere! I've posted the story of when I was homeless here.
Homelessness
Stephen Posted Oct 10, 2002
Its a good point! No I haven't read it. I tell myself I dont have time!
But I do buy it sometimes!
Yes I guess there are street papers elsewhwere. BI is the only one I come into contact with though. I suppose that makes me rather insular.....
Homelessness
Stephen Posted Oct 10, 2002
Yes I know about the exploiters too. Many people cite them as a reason for not giving to beggars etc and they may be right.
I wonder what proportion of those apparently in need of help are "cynical exploiters" though.
Its hard to know what to do as an individual. Probably to politely decline to give money on the streets and give to a suitable charity instead, though its not easy sometimes.
Tha of course raises anothe question. What kind of charity should we give to? Homeless people? Starving children in the third world? Cancer Research? Barnados? Animal protection? A donkey sanctuary?
I suspect that there is not enough "free" money about to support even the most worthy causes. How do you choose? Probably the organisations with the best marketing get most of the money and actually, a sub-set of homeless people - ie those that are highly visible on the streets - fall into that category.
Homelessness
Stephen Posted Oct 10, 2002
I dont think you're hard hearted; I think you are sensible and reasonbale and make a lot of good points.
The problem, both from an individual and a society view point, is actually insoluable given current constraints and everyones approach to it is different.
It is quite valid, for instance, to ask whether homelessness is what we should be giving our spare cash to at all. Perhaps there are other more worthwhile causes. Again, its a personal call!
Homelessness
Scarlet Woman Posted Oct 12, 2002
For years I used to buy the Big Issue - lots - i.e. whenever it was offered - so I might end up with 2 or 3 copies of the same issue.
Then one day, having bought 2 of that weeks mag. I was walking into a shop with my daugher, who had been very ill for 10 days and it was our first trip out to buy food, I walked passed the Big Issue seller and heard him say, as my daughter was level with him, 'well it's better than looking at your ugly daughter'. She was devastated @ 11 years old. I did our shopping and decided to have a quiet word with the man on the way out - but he was talking to someone - I didn't want to put him down infront of the nice lady he was chatting to, so I called the shop and explained the situation and said could they have a word with him as it was not fair to target young people in that way. I felt I should not be obliged to explain to him that I had already purchased 2 identical issues of the magazine that week...everyone should have a CHOICE!
The shop was horrified - the Big Issue seller in question was moved to another store on the same street and he would heckle me as I walked passed and even when I drove passed. After several weeks of this I rang the editor of the Big Issue and eventually the man was moved to a new 'beat'.
But I have never bought another copy of the Big Issue since that day - having been a staunch supporter.
Homelessness
Researcher PH Balance Posted Oct 13, 2002
I wasn't saying to go out and give donations to the homeless. But, if you feel so guilty it eats you up inside...and you can afford to...and you don't like to give change...then go for it. Personally, I can't afford to donate to any organization.
Homelessness
Mina Posted Oct 13, 2002
I'm surprised this man wasn't stopped from selling it - they have a very strict code of conduct.
Homelessness
Scarlet Woman Posted Oct 13, 2002
I was a little surprised too Mina - esp. as I knew someone who knew the editor - but I suspect that he eventually did get sacked - and I feel bad about that - but my daughter still remembers the comment he made and I am sure there is other work for him to do which will not allow him to make cruel comments to the very people he is wanting to sell his product to.
Homelessness
friendlywithteeth Posted Oct 13, 2002
I agree with you on that one! The Big Issue is still a good mag in its own right though, I dont buy it all the time, only once in a while, but everytime, I have read them and enjoyed them.
Homelessness
Mina Posted Oct 14, 2002
I'd buy it more often if I could find a regular seller. The only person whi is there day in and day out is a smoker, and I really can't bring myself to approach him when he's smoking.
Homelessness
Stephen Posted Oct 14, 2002
I really sympathise with you on this. It must have been horrible for you and your daughter.
Its part of the whole problem though that some homeless people (perhaps only a small minority, I dont know) lack ordinary social skills; are alcoholis; are druggies; are not right upstairs. Perhaps you ran into one of them(?).
Homelessness
friendlywithteeth Posted Oct 15, 2002
I can understand about availability...I dont always go on days that they are there...or they dont always go on the same days etc...
Homelessness
turvy (Fetch me my trousers Geoffrey...) Posted Oct 15, 2002
Two questions that come to mind.
1. Is there a solution to homelessness in the affluent West - State or otherwise?
2. Do the homeless or the rest of the population want or need a solution or does it create a 'comfort zone' for the 'haves'?
turvy - trying not to be too contentious and not succeeding.
Homelessness
friendlywithteeth Posted Oct 16, 2002
...theres nothing wrong with being contentious...
Could you explain the second question a bit more?
Key: Complain about this post
HOMELESSNESS
- 1: Stephen (Oct 3, 2002)
- 2: friendlywithteeth (Oct 4, 2002)
- 3: turvy (Fetch me my trousers Geoffrey...) (Oct 4, 2002)
- 4: friendlywithteeth (Oct 5, 2002)
- 5: Researcher PH Balance (Oct 7, 2002)
- 6: Toxxin (Oct 9, 2002)
- 7: friendlywithteeth (Oct 9, 2002)
- 8: Stephen (Oct 10, 2002)
- 9: Stephen (Oct 10, 2002)
- 10: Stephen (Oct 10, 2002)
- 11: Scarlet Woman (Oct 12, 2002)
- 12: Researcher PH Balance (Oct 13, 2002)
- 13: Mina (Oct 13, 2002)
- 14: Scarlet Woman (Oct 13, 2002)
- 15: friendlywithteeth (Oct 13, 2002)
- 16: Mina (Oct 14, 2002)
- 17: Stephen (Oct 14, 2002)
- 18: friendlywithteeth (Oct 15, 2002)
- 19: turvy (Fetch me my trousers Geoffrey...) (Oct 15, 2002)
- 20: friendlywithteeth (Oct 16, 2002)
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