h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Entry: Talleyrand -- Priest, Statesman and Diplomat - A781094
Author: And Introducing... A Leg (Defected to Brunel) - U194118

This is for Spaceman Spiff's University project on the French Revolution. It's sort of finished, but is probably riddles with typos, which I'm hopeless at spotting. Hopefully, there won't be any glaring factual errors, though -- it is based on something I did at my real University.

February 13th, 1754 (d. 1838)

The actual night when they abolished the privileges was the 4th/5th of August - the bill was signed by the king on the 11th. I'm not certain when Talleyrand made his radical proposal, but it seems highly likely that it was the night of the 4th/5th, when it was all happening.

presided over the Fete de la Federation at the Champs-de-Mars July 14th 1790


para: Exile

Some dates would be useful here. England in March 1792. US ????

typos: Spetember; olbliged


para: Directory

Dates: Thermidor July 1794; Directory 1795; T returns to France, 1796?

Bonaparte; T involved in Egypt campaign???

Is it correct that he was actually dismissed in July 1799 *before* the Brumaire coup d'etat? Then returned to his post immediately on its success?


para Empire:

Dates (sorry to be repetitive, )

Tilsit???
Talleyrand appointed head of provisional govt: April 1st, 1814 (maybe he was planning to claim it was just a 'poisson d'Avril' if it all went bad! )


para 1st retirement:

T resigns as F minister: September 23rd, 1815


para: London Emb

typo: errupted

para 2nd retirement: dates, specially when he shuffled of his mortal coil.



Well, that's my lot. Thanks ever so much for preparing this for the project. I've already slotted it in on the main page and will be back here soon with some links for you.

again
cya
spiff

sorry about the rather abrupt opening there!

I forgot i had just started a list of points without starting the posting.

I *meant* to start by saying that i think it is a great entry, well-written, factual and informative. I'm quite sure it would sail through PR so i feel a responsibility to get the project edited to make sure this entry gets its rightful place in the EG.

cya
spiff

I've made quite a few of the corrections you mentioned above. The others will appear this evening when I've had a chance to consult my copy of one of the biographies of him (by Hillare Belloc, if memory serves).

Okay, job done, I think.

I've actually re-arranged the section on the Empire, because I seemed to have got the chronology slightly wrong. I think it make more sense now.

Oh, and the biography was by Duff Cooper. It was dedicated to Belloc.

Time for some and , I think. (Yes, I am just mucking around with Brunel).

A781094 - Talleyrand -- Priest, Statesman and Diplomat

It's really good to see this project coming along, and I really enjoyed this entry. The intro is an excellent bit of scene-setting.

There are a few typos and subbing points that I'll leave for the sub to deal with.

"A later Perigord was a powerful cardinal, the true voice behind the papal throne" - not sure what you mean by 'true voice'. Do you mean the real voice, or the real power, or...?

The Estates-General - the First and Second Estates was false, and, though he was not a unicameralist, he nonetheless joined the National Assembley

- please explain what all this means. What does "The Estates-General" mean?

"He did this quietly, appearing to be doing so because he thought it
inevitable than because he wanted to" - this isn't clear.

"Still, he tended to vote liberally" - do you mean he did a lot of voting, or he voted for the Liberals?

"the continuation of the cult" - which cult?

"investing new priests" - do you mean ordaining?

"With the reaction of Thermidor" - what's that, the lobster biting back?

What is the Directory?

What was "the notorious XYZ affair"?

"a constitutional Bourbon monarchy" - what would that be?

What was the Consulate?

Where is Tilsit?

Napoleon returned for the Hundred Days - what's that?

Les Trois Glorieus (Glorieux?) - what were they?

It may be that all these things are explained elsewhere in the project, of course, but at the moment I haven't really understood this entry very much.

Hi Bels,

just a general comment; it's worth bearing in mind with some of those questions that in the context of the Fr Rev project, they'll be links to some of them.

Particularly, Directory and Thermidor, for instance. Probly some others.


spiff

I'm assuming the this will be linked to Spiff's overview of the French Revolution, (though I'm not 100% clear as to precisely how University Project stuff works -- would Spiff have some sort of Editors' powers, or do I put the links in myself?) which explains most of the terminology. To go over it again would be irrelevant and a waste of time and space. I will explain the XYZ affair in more detail, though, together with a number of other matters.

Hey Leg,

I am sticking this little para at the end of each entry:



This entry is part of the French Revolution University Project.

Well as long as all the points are covered *somewhere* that'll be just fine.

Spiff, might it be a good idea to have a 'Glossary' entry which explains all (or most) of the terms used, so that everything can link back to that?

Regarding sorting these things out, my understanding is that when the project is deemed complete all the entries go to a sub, who deals with links and all that sort of thing.

I could get quite excited about this project!

Bels

Well, Bels, it's in need of a hardy sub-editor to take it on...



good idea about a single glossary entry. It will be done.

Have you peeked at the overview? At the mo it's a kind of 'super entry' so that i don't have to create a bunch of entries until i work out what goes where. What gets its own entry and what is part of an existing one, y'know.

I don't want to drop that monster in any forum right now. Definitely just my personal work in prog.

Any comments would be very welcome on the proj page.

er, link above, sort of...

cya
spiff

French Rev proj - A685668

Well, as you say, a lot of it is still 'in prog', though I suppose that could mean anything from just starting to think about it to nearly finished.

A general comment is that there seem to be quite a few accents missing - eg 'Angouleme': doesn't that take a circumflex? Also the use of English translations without mentioning the original French, as in 'estate'. I would like to see the French terms in there somewhere.

I was puzzled about La Fayette / Lafayette. Are both correct?
I have
a) Lafayette, Marie Joseph (Paul Yves Roch Gilbert Motier), marquis de
but on the other hand
b) La Fayette, Marie Madeleine (Pioche de la Vergne), comtesse de, known as Madame de La Fayette (the novelist)

Anyway I did offer some time ago to sub the project, so keep that in mind as it nears completion.

Bels

Doh! sorry Bels, I had forgotted!

I've been doing some work on it recently, so there is hope yet of completion.

One day.

The question of Lafayette needs a definitive answer. I'm pretty sure the one we want is Lafayette, but i'll nail that soonest.

'soonest' of course, is a relative concept.

Yes -- knot in hankie -- look up XYZ affair.

Yes -- knot in hankie -- look up XYZ affair.

Two knots to make sure, there.

And there it is. I think that new footnote says what needed to be said. I had to struggle a bit to stop the footnote getting too big.