h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Entry: German Tanks of World War II - A68722743
Author: the_jon_m - U204330

a long overdue follow up to A30561013

Hi Jon, a nice comprehensive piece. A few nitpicks to start with. I'll have another full read later.

''German high command drew up designs for some of the most fearsome tanks to tank the field.''


*German high command drew up designs for some of the most fearsome tanks to take the field.*

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''Carrying just a commander and a driver and weighing in a little over 5 tonnes,''

*Carrying just a commander and a driver and weighing in at a little over 5 tonnes,*

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''the Panzer III was fitted with a 37 main gun,''

*the Panzer III was fitted with a 37mm main gun,*

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''the Panther, was the arguably best tank design of the whole war.''

*the Panther was arguably the best tank design of the whole war.*

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''This left with a limited traverse but meant that assault guns were far cheaper to make and were a harder target to hit.''

*This left them with a limited traverse but meant that assault guns were far cheaper to make and were a harder target to hit.*

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''With uprated guns, may assault guns were used as tank destroyers.''

*With uprated guns, many assault guns were used as tank destroyers.*

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''At 7 ft (2 meters) tall,''

*At 7 ft (2 metres) tall,*

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''it was that America out Russian out produced them on tanks.''

*it was that America and Russia out produced them on tanks.*

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BMT Scout

ta, updated

A very good read - well done!

One thing I would change is comma use. For the very large numbers in the third paragraph you use commas ("Germany produced 47,000 armoured fighting vehicles during the war against the UKs 28,000, but America and the USSR produced 88,000 and 105,000 respectivly" - oh, should be "respectively") but there are cases where you have left the commas out - such as Panzer V Panther has 6000, Panzer 38(t) 1500, Jagdpanzer 38(t) 'over 2800', Footnote 2 has '1000'.

I think the numbers are much easier to read with commas - but that is only a minor criticism on what I think is an excellent entry!

(I was going to ask if it would be possible to suggest museums that are good places to see these tanks, such as Bovington Tank Museum, but on second thoughts I realise that that would be a much longer guide entry on its own and unneccasary to the enjoyment of this one).

<BB<

Hi, jon.

What struck me with this Entry is that the first sentence seems a bit like opening a history book half-way through and reading from there. I would suggest writing an introductory paragraph - perhaps about how tank warfare changed how warfare was conducted, and why or how it changed it.

I can't believe that this article is being neglected! Hopefully a little nudge will bring it to people's attention again.

Perhaps you could consider changing the link from where it says 'UKs 28,000' to 'the 28,000 British tanks' as 'UKs 28,000' seems an odd phrase to have the link at. Or if you wish to keep the link there, add an apostrophe?

(Nitpicking I know, but hopefully it will get this article noticed again).

<BB<

Come on tjm! Just a little work and this will be off into the Approved Guide, and rightly so.

'Panzerkampfwagen' - no 's'. (There needs to be a 'pedant' smiley, and it should look like an old German professor with a monocle.)

I agree that this is an astoundingly comprehensive treatment of German tanks.

I would also like to see an introductory paragraph that:

1. Mentions World War II in the first sentence.

2. Has some kind of a hook in it to entice people to read it, even if they've never thought about Panzers before. That could be as simple as saying something like, 'In the Second World War, no motorised vehicle struck such fear into the hearts of all nations as the Panzer. The name itself became synonymous with conquest.'

That's nonsense, of course. I'm sure you could come up with something much better.

I can't believe that this one is still largely neglected and in Peer Review 2 years later, Let's try and get it the Edited status it deserves.

I still think that you should consider Dmitri's suggestions and changing the link from where it says 'UKs 28,000' to 'the 28,000 British tanks' as 'UKs 28,000' seems an odd phrase to have the link at and jars a little.

You could consider a link in reference tabs to A906716 Tanks - the Flipside, or not.

<BB<

Well it certainly looks as if tjm has transferred to the new site.

Are you around tjm?

Is everyone happy with the content? It's possible a sub-editor could fix any outstanding problems mentioned in Peer Review, but we need the Scouts to read this an approve please.

Agreed. This shouldn't still be here.

Panzer II: <> 2cm --> 20mm (in line with all later calibre descriptions)

Otherwise just sub-ed changes .

by me.

I think KB made a good point, that the introduction needs sorting, it needs to reference the Second World War, the Wehrmacht and quite possibly a bit about Blitzkrieg and the reasons behind the importance of German tank warfare in regards to the swiftness of the German invasion of much of Europe after Hitler came to power...

The last sentence of the 'introduction' reads "Military historians and tank reconstructors have found much evidence that these workers were happy to sabotage tanks so that they were as poorly made as a product of the 1970s British Leyland car company."

I appreciate the 'humour', but really don't like it - many Leyland enthusiasts would argue the point. Not to mention the fact it's a bit insulting of the British company.

In regards to sub-editing, if that's what will happen, these sections need sorting:

Panzer I

I appreciate what the author is trying to allude to, in that this weapons carrier could hardly be classified as a 'tank' in technical terms, so perhaps it wise to compare it to the British Bren Carrier?

Panzer II

"but actually looking vaguely like a tank" in comparison to what? The Panzer I? A grapefruit?

Panzer III

"The III, built by Daimler-Benz, would go after the tanks and other armoured vehicles while the IV would provide infantry support." I find the term 'go after' clumsy. Does this mean it just follows on behind after other armoured vehicles, like a lost puppy? Clarify the sentence, 'would attack enemy' perhaps needs slotting in.

Panzer IV

Who's Krupp? A first name, some reference to a designer in general would be nice.

Panther

First reference to the US Sherman. Poor Shermans, what did they do to deserve being picked on? I would suggest 'American-designed Sherman tanks'.

Sturmtiger, or is it Strumtiger?

Elefant

The introductory sentence reads, "As stated earlier, Ferdinand Porsche was so convinced he was going to get to build the new Tiger tank that he started building."

This is clumsy, and it is also the first use of a full designer name rather than a manufacturer, so I would suggest;

As stated earlier, Porsche were so convinced they were going to win the new Tiger tank contract that they started construction work.

Elefant, or Elephant, make a decision.

I would suggest that the German monikers are italicised throughout the Entry anyway, except of course the subheadings.

Throughout the Entry there are numerous missing letters from words, 'Assalt' for example, missing words, like 'the', 'an', 'a', etc. and punctuation (such as commas in numerals) so an eagle-eyed sub needs to handle this.

That's my

PS

I subbed A30561013 back in the day, so if the plan is to just get this recommended and then subbed, I think I'd like to be consulted.

Hi Matt

Thanks for all those points, they are really appreciated.

You know we are actively looking for sub-editors? Especially ones who have experience and talent. If you think you may have time to sub-edit this or some other Entry, please contact the GuideEditors. Seriously, please do.

Now the site is getting busier again in terms of writing we don't want Entries to wait for long before they are published. But we need more subs in order to make that happen.

Our ComingUp queue gives you some idea of what is waiting for a sub-editor at the moment. We also need people who can take photographs (or make images), so that these Entries are all illustrated.

Ok, I finally decided to comment on this. Not because I am very interested in tanks but because I read the Entry a while ago (just reading again) and find the use of German in this Entry strange at places.

First of all I think it has to be explained that 'Panzer' is not just a random name someone invented, as it must seem to someone who reads your Entry and does not speak German. 'Panzer' is in fact the name for anything like armour that is there for protection. This starts with the Brustpanzer (chest armour) of a warrior and ends with the Panzer (shell) of a turtle. Or in fact a Panzerschrank, a safe to keep your treasures.
'Panzer' is now also the German word for tank. Any tank, not just the 'Panzer series', as you call them (really, I have no idea about all that). Maybe this should be mentioned.
So, with that in mind you should think about leaving 'the' away from 'Panzer' and only use it where 'Panzer' is really a kind of 'brand name' and does not simply mean 'tank'. For instance in the first line 'they called it the Panzer' I would leave away 'the'. I'd keep them in the paragraphs about the specific types. But maybe native English speakers will object, so listen to them.

'Their full names were Panzerkampfwagens.'
Could you reword that to 'Their full name was Panzerkraftwagen.' or something like that? Sorry, the added s just sounds so strange to me because in German Panzerkraftwagen is both singular and plural. (it's the same with Panzer in fact).

If I may answer a question from above: Krupp is a family name, their Krupp steel company was and still is Germany's most important steel manufacturer. 'Zäh wie Leder, hart wie Kruppstahl' (tough as leather, hard as Krupp steel) was a Nazi slogan.

If this was too much now I'm sorry.

when I've sobered up, I'll have a look at this

edited