h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Entry: Flamenco & Picasso - A6864285
Author: Little Richardjohn - U1244517

This is a cryptic thought piece, intended to begin an examination of the extent of the cultural influences and congruities of flamenco.

Yay! Well done for persisting and welcome!

May I ask that we start with the intro to the piece first, before talking about Picasso, I (total ignorant, btw) find myself struggling to understand what you mean by flamenco and duende. All I know about flamenco is that the passion of the percussion in the music seems to put the dancers into a trance and the clothes are dramatic. So can you tell me a bit more about flamenco itself, a tiny bit about its history in terms of the gypsy (most people think it's just spanish folk music) and then a bit about the duende aspect? Then I think I will be ready for the bit about its influence on Picasso and his art.

What do you think? Would that be a good way to coax your readers into the cultural awakening that awaits them?



Wilma

For more general information about flamenco, I did post this
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/brunel/A8760602

As for defining 'duende', it's something which should be avoided if you want to stay out of trouble. There are several competing interpretations extant. I prefer to identify cultural parallels, like 'mojo' or even 'Hiraeth' or 'weltsmertz'.

I do my best with 'spirtuality of shared solitude.

A Miles Davis trumpet solo, if you like.

The point for me was not to try to define the culture, but to try to understand its relevance today.

Your entry A8760602 on Flamenco is excellent, RL. It traces the origins, the passions and tribulations and the human element of the music. We need to do that here too. Obviously, you can link this entry to the Flamenco entry in an introduction, I think you'll need a little intro to flamenco here as well, though. Just a paragraph (plus the link) then you will be ready to talk about duende.

RL: As for defining 'duende', it's something which should be avoided if you want to stay out of trouble. There are several competing interpretations extant. I prefer to identify cultural parallels, like 'mojo' or even 'Hiraeth' or 'weltsmertz'.

OK, fair enough, however, assume that I know nothing of flamenco other than what I have seen on the telly and have no comprehension of duende other than what I am reading now - and I could not tell you how any of that affected Picasso - someone I am vaguely aware of as a painter of peculiar women . You are writing to inform me and I need a little bit of handholding .

RL: I do my best with 'spirtuality of shared solitude. A Miles Davis trumpet solo, if you like.

That's great, say that in the entry but also some history of duende - a little of the controversy in defining it and why there is a controversy (in the same way you cover the evolution of flamenco and the resistance to it in some quarters).

Then talk a bit about Picasso and how his work was prior to this influence - and therefore how it manifested in his work. Also tell me what pieces I can look at and see this influence - what am I looking for?

RL: The point for me was not to try to define the culture, but to try to understand its relevance today.

I understand that, but I am still struggling. I can't get to that point until I have a better understanding of your subject matter. I need to be with you in comprehension before I can fully appreciate the relevance today.

I do hope some of this is helpful. I really do think this is important and your flamenco entry is excellent. You have offered up a whole new vista of understanding for me. I am now curious about this aspect of Picasso's work that I was never aware of. I am sure that others will feel the same as well - so we *need* this in the EG!



Wilma

There are already two edited entries on Flamenco that might be worth checking out to avoid overlapping.

A500491 Flamenco (which I originally titled 'Flamenco Dance' but, since there was no entry on Flamenco at all at the time, I felt I needed to give a bit of background info as well as describing the dance)

A974450 Flamenco Guitar

Oh, and I saw that Little Richardjohn also has this entry in Peer Review:

A4111156 Flamenco - The European Blues

I think I might have cleared up some of the confusion with a little restructuring.

Try it now.

I'll come to the other points in a while.

Your entry is very interesting. The most important detail that I would suggest changing is the title! Since Flamenco is a subject that has already been explored, I think that the concept of 'duende' is what this entry has as a unique quality.

Furthermore, by introducing duende as part of the subject it becomes less of an unknown element in the relationship between F and P, and instead becomes an abstraction that could be described as a product of them.

I think this is a somewhat personal exploration of a subject that is clearly important to the author. The amount of feeling expressed is nice, but should be balanced with some factual detail so that a reader is getting the relavant information with the emotion.

The addition of 'facts' would not seem as necessary if the subject was 'Duende', since Flamenco and Picasso would be the points used to help describe the concept. You could then easily have reference to entries relating to them that may already contain mundane detail.

The more I think about it the stronger I feel that this entry is really about Duende, and not F or P. If you prefer not to change this entry, you should consider a new one dedicated to that concept. (and don't feel that you need to define it, or that by titleing it Duende that you may be seen as attempting to define it. This ain't a dictionary. It's about your discoveries, interpretations, and speculation.)

As far as your present entry goes, some corrections would be:
-make sure you close your quotes
-(opinion)first and second paragraphs could be combined, with the first paragraph ending at Gypsy nation. (gives them more emphasis)
-The word 'duende' should probably be treated the same throughout. At one point it is in parenthesis and capitolized, and later neither. I think the ''s are not necessary (but maybe not wrong), while it should be capitolized since it is the name of a concept.

Good Luck!

ps your 'personal space' is the primary way that others can get an idea of who you are. Putting anything there will replace the default page and show some commitment. (remember, reading and presenting suggestions takes time and nobody wants to think theirs is being wasted) Seeing the subjects that intrest you, it wouldn't seem that a greeting would be a challenge. {plus, you can tell everybody yer favourite colour, and where you go to school/work}

I like what you've done, RL

Two questions for you:

Would you say a bit about Lorca and his work? Just a couple of sentences to place the man in history, as it were. He was, after all, more than just Picasso's friend

and

Would you consider inserting this quote from Lorca?

"Thus duende is a power and not a behavior, it is a struggle and not a concept. I have heard an old master guitarist say: ‘Duende is not in the throat; duende surges up from the soles of the feet.’ Which means it is not a matter of ability, but of real live form; of blood; of ancient culture; of creative action."

The reason I say this is because although I agree you are not interested in "defining" duende, we do need to come to some understanding of it here so that people will want to find out more...

at some point, we will need to look at the way you will link to your entry from other places on hootoo and maybe elsewhere.

Excellent going, btw.

W

You're dead right. The wine needs a little water.

The Lorca quote is very useful. Where's it from? Which is rich coming from me.

Incidentally, 'hootoo' - who he?

The quote was from here - on second reading, it appears it was a quote *by* Lorca and damn good thing you asked!

http://www.programata.bg/index.php?page=details&ln=2&city=1&eid=9418

... and hootoo is here, where you are (h2g2)



W

Hi Little Richard John,
Are you planning to come back to this?

Wilma

Sorry I've been a bit dilettante about this recently.

I've just discovered the vast amount of flamenco on YouTube. For instance:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9LcuM1a63A&eurl=

Can we post these links? I forget.

If not why not and why isn't the BBC doing YouTube only better? I'm afraid that's what I want to know at the moment.
It would have a much greater effect on general appreciation of flamenco than any pathetic efforts of mine.

These are questions best posed at feedback (link is on the left) For the purposes of this entry, YouTube is not a suitable link because it is an unreliable source. You want to be linking to stuff that stands a chance of still being aorund next year.
W

In what sense unreliable?
The sight of all these great artists in their prime (Camaron and Tomatito!) should be enough to alter people's perceptions as radically as the early imports of Muddy Waters and Elmore James influenced young lads called Mick and Keith and John and Paul in the 60's.

As for YouTube not being around in a year, if this is likely then surely that is an even stronger case for the BBC to wholeheartedly bring genuine standards of curatorship to this cornucopaeia.

I meant the link may not be reliable. I am quite aware of the value of the content, but the links are individually 'owned' and can be edited out at any point by the poster.
W