h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Entry: Firewalking as a Tool For Personal Growth - A655300
Author: Zarquon's Singing Fish! (ACE & Scout) - loved, lovable and loving! - U182827

As always, constructive comments welcome.

ZSF! You forgot to say, 'Everyone that is except you, FordsTowel.'

This was a fine example of a deeply personal experience with a little understood practice. I appreciate you reasons for taking part, and the unusual amount of candor in the piece.

I also appreciate your willingness to post a link to a site that discusses the physics of the issue. If your entry had been intended as a guide entry, more should have been included about this; but, as a personal journey of discovery piece, it may not be required.

I also liked seeing that the link site mentioned one of my favorite periodicals, the Skeptical Inquirer. It generally has a demonstrably objective viewpoint on its covered subject matter.

All this aside, I would like to suggest a revisit of your recorded temperatures. You mention 1200 and the link 800. From what I have read, these may be 'internal' temperatures of the firepit, but far exceed the surface temperatures.

I don't think we need to get into deep discussions of the phsyics, or nitpick a few degrees, but these seem several hundred degrees from those actually experienced by the bottom of a participants feet.

Accuracy would do nothing to take away from the bravery and commitment of the participants. It may even be that the lower values would add credence and believability to the piece that might otherwise be tinged with hyperbole.

Keep these coming!

Oh, no, FordsTowel! You're also welcome. Thanks for the comments.

I'm just off to bed, so I'll look at your comments again in the morning. I remember hearing years before I did the firewalk (and come to mention it, I think it was reiterated during the preparation), that it was the fact that the foot is in contact with the coals for a short time before being lifted, it's a bit like making a water bomb and putting a flame underneath it.

One of the sources I found said that master firewalkers can hold hot coals in their hands and roll on the fires. Rather them than me!

I'd forgotten that until you reminded me!

OK, I've amended the entry in the light of your comments and what you reminded me about.

Well, that at least mentions that there is a temperature differential, so thank you.

The footnote was a nice addition, too; but I found it a bit confusing at first glance. I'm spoiled, I suppose, because the only ever water bombs I have made were of rubber baloons. Took me a moment to place the reference to 'paper' as in paper bags.

A word or two could clarify that the water 'transfers heat away', rather than just transfers heat. What do you think?

'People undertake to do a firewalk for a variety of reasons - curiosity, to overcome a specific fear, challenge, achievement, pride (one of the worst motivations) or simply because the opportunity to do one presents itself. '

People also get bullied into doing it as a result of some half-baked corporate teambuilding ideal. This seems to be on the increase. You should point out in the article that no-one should be coerced into doing this against their better judgement, as it *is* dangerous and, to a large percentage of the population, of questionable benefit.

FM
Scout

I can't really argue with FM's point, although what you include is your choice; but, his statement could apply as easily to sky-diving - which (though more common) is probably no more or less safe than fire-walking, once the physics are understood.

FT, I'll make the clarification about the water bomb and taking the heat away. Did you never make a water bomb out of a piece of paper! And heat it up?

FM, I did mention corporate firewalking in the bit on Tony Robbins. I agree - people should *never* be coerced into this. It could be quite dangerous. I did mention that there will be people who feel unwilling or unable to complete the firewalk. On the one I did, one woman even came down to the fire wearing tights. In the end, she actually did the firewalk with a person on each side of her, and she got a tremendous cheer! Having said that, there were people who just didn't. In some ways, it's more difficult not to, as there is a pressure to do it.

Holy ZSF, a piece(?) of paper?

You surprise me, again. I presumed that if we weren't talking rubber balloons, that you meant paper bags!

How do you make water bombs from paper? This is a skill that could come in handy!

Looking forward to a little harmless mayhem,

You make a cube, FT.

I had a google to see what I could find. Here's an interesting looking flying water bomb.

http://pvdl.best.vwh.net/fold.html

This is the traditional way to do it. You have to blow it from the hole to make it into a cube. Great fun.

http://rachel.ns.purchase.edu/~Jeanine/origami/oriwat.htm

And here's one with a picture:

http://users.bigpond.net.au/mechtoys/waterbomb.html

Perhaps I should add it to the entry?

Couldn't resist it - I added it.

Mind you, here's an animated version:

http://www.foundationtv.co.uk/f-tips/waterbomb.html

Nice one
One question, what are NLP techniques?

I think an enrty on paper water bombs would be a good idea

>> In some ways, it's more difficult not to, as there is a pressure to do it.

That, in my view, would be a very badly run 'personal growth' firewalk session. People who are pressurised into walking against their will get burnt. People who come along and walk without having done the workshop get burnt. There should always be complete equality between those who firewalk and those who don't.

ZSF, I don't think you've mentioned anything about firedancing. It usually takes place in cultures that do firewalking - some Greek villages come to mind, and I'm sure there must be Native American firewalking/dancing traditions.

One thing I would like to have seen a little more emphasis on in the entry is - the fire! It is after all the center of the whole thing. As well as attending the lighting of the fire, the workshop participants need to be in the presence of the fire for some later periods too. They need to experience it as a roaring fire as well as (later) a bed of coals.

Fire is very purifying and cleansing, and that power is (or should be) very much part of what is going on. So there should be some dancing, singing, meditating or just sitting around the fire while it is burning down.

Another random point is that during the firewalk it is possible to get a bit of burning coal stuck between your toes without realising it, and this is another reason why there should be a footbath or a jolly good hosedown at the end of the walk.

I think you should indicate what sort of 'personal growth' people can be expected to derive from firewalking. I have done firewalks as a personal growth workshop on two separate occasions. I enjoyed the first one so much I went back some weeks later for another. I experienced a general sense of well-being and happiness at the time, and of course the sense of having achieved what I thought was the 'impossible', but beyond that I don't really feel it's done anything much for me. For me, it was nice but not earthshaking. So what do people get out of it?

Why is pride 'one of the worst motivations'? I think this is a bit of opinion slipping in here, and it needs backup.
Again, "At its best, it is a tool for self discovery" - what do you discover? Why is this the best scenario? How about if you discover your pride?

"Some firewalk leaders use NLP techniques and others do not" - so why bring this in? It will only mean having to explain NLP and how it is used in firewalking, and some discussion of the pros and cons.

"The process encourages us to draw on our own resources and access a previously undiscovered part of ourselves." This is an assumption that what we access is 'previously undiscovered' - it might or might not be.


Just some random jottings - any use?

Bels

I'll give them some thought, Bels. Who did you do your firewalks with?

I only put the bit about pressure in as FM thought it was relevant. In the firewalk I took part in, it was stressed that doing the walk was a free choice. People were supported to do it, but not forced.

As for the burning coal between the toes, i think this is what happened to me. Interesting that it should happen the minute I though "I haven't felt anything". Then I thought, 'oh sh*t', then the pain hit.

I haven't put anything about firedancing or more about traditional cultures because although I was aware of them, i couldn't find much on the net to give me further details.

Interesting at the end of it, I felt much as you did.

I believe that the reference is to Neuro-Linguistic Programming.

If you aren't familiar with it, you may prefer not to persur it further.

Gosh, I've been talking jargon. I've known the initials for so long, it never occurred to me that others might know about it.

OK, Bels, I think I've addressed all the issues you raised. I've deleted some parts and inserted new ones.

Anyone anything else to add/suggest?

Ok here are my thoughts ...

1) It's a good entry. Very well written. Lots of good info. Covers the bases pretty well.

Perhaps the only things I 'disagree' with are:

2) The title is only partially reflective of the entry. Having read the whole entry, and not really noticed the title until I got here, I wouldn't have said it talks that much about personal growth. If anything I'd say it should be something like "Firewalking"

3) The links at the end are just sat on their own. In particular the "myths and physics" one could be explained. As I read the entry, I was expecting an explanation of how it is all done. How about giving a summary of how firewalking is achieved and provide the link for those wanting more explanation.

3a) Your footnote about paper bombs has spelling/grammo/typo at the start.

Some other thoughts:

4) Although you've done it, it's in bold, how about you double-reiterate, say again, repeat that "Don't try this at home" warning.

5) I remember back in 1998 a UK news report that 33 people were treated for severe burns after being sent on a firewalking teambuild course. I think it was someone like Eagle Star / Prudential type big corporation. Unfortunately I couldn't track down anything to corroborate my memory. And you do make some mention of this type of incident in the opening anyway. (I remember because we all sat in work, laughing ourselves silly at them - after all what did they expect).

HTH

BBS