A Conversation for The h2g2 Doctor Who Group
Doctor Who
IctoanAWEWawi Posted May 15, 2010
yes, very good. A look into the dark side of the Doctor's psyche. Not surprising he has a significant nasty streak in there. Although shows him to be very self aware in working out who the Dream Lord was. All the proper standard self recrimination of self hate. Amy may have driven the van to kill them - but the Doctor let her and went along for the ride. Since it was all in his head, it was about him and his 'good' side winning out, the side that wants Amy to have her own life outside of her travels. Which, if the stories about her are right all ties in.
And Amy finally got a personality - yay!
No crack I saw. And the crack in the clouds from Vampires in Venice was a tad dubious so two non crack episodes (it wasn't in the lock, I checked )?
Doctor Who
Alfster Posted May 15, 2010
The crack was mentioned in Vampires in Venice and was the reason why the aliens were in Venice hence no need to show the crack in the episode.
Doctor Who
IctoanAWEWawi Posted May 15, 2010
well, yes, it was mentioned and all - but it was mentioned in other eps too and shown.
I think it is more that we got the Silence (with a capital-s no less!) in Vamps.
Doctor Who
hygienicdispenser Posted May 15, 2010
Re cracks. I thought the second part of the angels one was quite clear; chucking the angels into it closed the crack. No more crack. But. But. The thing that caused the crack, the huge "explosion", on June 29th(?) of this year still exists, and still needs dealing with by somebody or other. Probably Bob the Builder.
Doctor Who
Just Bob aka Robert Thompson, plugging my film blog cinemainferno-blog.blogspot.co.uk Posted May 15, 2010
He claimed that it was to get Amy together with her fiancee. I just think he was either lying to her or lying to himself. Just a theory.
The aliens inside the old people said they had been chased away from their home by something which, at the time, I took to be another reference to the Cracks/Silence. Given that it later turned out to be a dream, does it still count? Maybe the issue is on his mind...
Doctor Who
IctoanAWEWawi Posted May 15, 2010
"I thought the second part of the angels one was quite clear; chucking the angels into it closed the crack. No more crack."
Ah, the cracks are multiple. The cracks we see are not the same crack, but they all have the same source. So the cracks that the Angels sealed is closed - but other cracks will still be open. Hence the cracks the fish-from-space came through, and the silence the Doctor witnessed.
Doctor Who
HonestIago Posted May 16, 2010
Incredible, just incredible. Seeing these tight, intricate stories is making me realise just how much time each ep RTD wasted: Moffat gets so much more done.
I thought the 'cold star' dream was real, I developed this theory that the Doctor has never pretended to know everything so something unknown and impossible was more real than something just a little too perfect. Excellent writing to wrong-foot me so completely.
Earlier in the week the Guardian had a review of the first half of the series (http://www.guardian.co.uk/tv-and-radio/tvandradioblog/2010/may/13/doctor-who-steven-moffat-expectations) and one of the complaints was that it lacked the heart, the emotion of the RTD series. This episode kinda blew that out of the water: the emotion on show was painfully real even if the worlds weren't. Rory so certain that the world where Amy loved him was real, because she was the centre of his universe, Amy still uncertain where her heart lay until the tragic moment of realisation and the Doctor fighting his inner demons.
I've said before I love the little details: at the end of the Upper Lebworth dream the Doctor couldn't touch Amy to comfort her. He reached out but he pulled back, he couldn't quite make contact. That killed me.
What I got from this episode was that the Doctor wants Amy, just as he's wanted his previous companions, but he's always held back because he knows it's wrong for the companions and wrong for him in the long run (the whole Doctor/Rose saga told us that). The Dreamlord, as the Doctor's dark half) was trying to get both the Doctor and Amy to choose each other and to get the Doctor to give up his morals.
The Dreamlord was a fantastic invention and it's something that gave us tons of stuff to pore over: the weakness and viciousness in the Doctor, his hidden self-loathing. How much was revealed in this episode just blows me away.
This was the episode where I finally connected with Amy as a companion and it was nice to see the dilemma between life on Earth and life with the Doctor so starkly realised: they've tried it with Mickey, but it didn't quite work because Mickey became similarly infatuated with the life of a hero. Rory doesn't want to be a hero, he wants to be the person Amy loves and life on the TARDIS has no hold over him.
Rory was superb in this episode: he was kind, brave and vulnerable all at the same time. This episode needed him to be magnificent for the choice to work and he was. Matt Smith lives and breathes the Doctor yet again and this is the first story that I can't imagine Tennant being able to do.
Finally, this episode looked and sounded beautiful. The frozen TARDIS and the cold star were brilliantly realised, and I loved how, as the TARDIS got colder, so did Upper Ledworth: it started to sleet/snow around the park and the colours got washed out. Although I was a fan of the music in the RTD eps when everyone else complained it was over-blown, I'm developing a new appreciation for subtlety. The soft piano notes and the gentle strings in the background: just wow. It reminded me a lot of the Firefly episode Out of Gas and if you're going to get inspiration from other shows, it's good to get it from the best.
That was a long'un - can you tell I enjoyed this episode
Doctor Who
Just Bob aka Robert Thompson, plugging my film blog cinemainferno-blog.blogspot.co.uk Posted May 16, 2010
Personally, I don't see how she could go for Rory ahead of the Doctor, but that's just me. Her making that choice was perfectly realised.
Doctor Who
Alfster Posted May 16, 2010
HI<
Incredible, just incredible. Seeing these tight, intricate stories is making me realise just how much time each ep RTD wasted: Moffat gets so much more done.>
Unfortunately, many people do not see that as it's all a bit too subtle for them. Some people prefer the spoon-fed melodramatic, shouty, soapy RTD stuff
I thought the 'cold star' dream was real, I developed this theory that the Doctor has never pretended to know everything so something unknown and impossible was more real than something just a little too perfect. Excellent writing to wrong-foot me so completely.
See my point above!
I think that was merely good luck due to the weather when it was being recorded. It was the last one filmed and only got the final edit last week.
Yup, it was and I agree with your points. Loads of subtle things in there that went unsaid.
Doctor Who
Just Bob aka Robert Thompson, plugging my film blog cinemainferno-blog.blogspot.co.uk Posted May 16, 2010
Best line: "There is oly one person in the universe who hates me that much. I know who you are." In light of 'who' it turns out to be, this line is a diamond.
Doctor Who
IctoanAWEWawi Posted May 16, 2010
interesting thing I thought is that many of the critics posts have said this is a divisive episode, and those that didn't didn't like it. Yet most of the fan/viewers posts have loved it.
I do wonder though, for those with kids, how the kids found it?
Next week - silurians
Doctor Who
Vip Posted May 17, 2010
Meh - I found it rather irritating, and, unfortunately, I assumed that both were dreams from the outset so I didn't get the fun of being surprised at the end (although I didn't know who 'he' was though - that was the one bit I enjoyed).
All in all it felt like filler to me.
Doctor Who
Mol - on the new tablet Posted May 17, 2010
Well, my three kids enjoyed it. Osh (aged 7) worked out that they were both dreams about halfway through, which impressed me. Perhaps because of this, he was't particularly frightened by it though.
Husband also enjoyed it, saying 'It wasn't much like Doctor Who' - which is quite high praise from him.
Mol
Doctor Who
Bluebottle Posted May 17, 2010
If asked to summarise this year's Doctor Who so far in one word, it would have to be: "crackin'"
<BB<
Doctor Who
sigsfried Posted May 17, 2010
I've always said that one of the reasons the Doctor is so moral is that no matter where he goes the Doctor is always there watching what he does. That episode couldn't have made that clearer.
Doctor Who
Mu Beta Posted May 17, 2010
I'd go for "watch with the sound down".
It looks great, not least both the least, but the scripts have been a load of garbage so far.
If Moffat can write frankly genius episodes like The Empty Child and Blink, why is he not doing it more often?
B
Doctor Who
Galigan Posted May 18, 2010
My thoughts here, sorry it's late again: http://wp.me/pLq5j-2N
Overall though I thought that was superb! Very well planned and executed, save for the psychic pollen which I thought was a bit weak.
Key: Complain about this post
Doctor Who
- 3441: IctoanAWEWawi (May 15, 2010)
- 3442: Alfster (May 15, 2010)
- 3443: IctoanAWEWawi (May 15, 2010)
- 3444: hygienicdispenser (May 15, 2010)
- 3445: Just Bob aka Robert Thompson, plugging my film blog cinemainferno-blog.blogspot.co.uk (May 15, 2010)
- 3446: IctoanAWEWawi (May 15, 2010)
- 3447: HonestIago (May 16, 2010)
- 3448: Deb (May 16, 2010)
- 3449: Just Bob aka Robert Thompson, plugging my film blog cinemainferno-blog.blogspot.co.uk (May 16, 2010)
- 3450: Alfster (May 16, 2010)
- 3451: Just Bob aka Robert Thompson, plugging my film blog cinemainferno-blog.blogspot.co.uk (May 16, 2010)
- 3452: IctoanAWEWawi (May 16, 2010)
- 3453: Vip (May 17, 2010)
- 3454: Mol - on the new tablet (May 17, 2010)
- 3455: Bluebottle (May 17, 2010)
- 3456: Vip (May 17, 2010)
- 3457: sigsfried (May 17, 2010)
- 3458: Mu Beta (May 17, 2010)
- 3459: Galigan (May 18, 2010)
- 3460: Giford (May 18, 2010)
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