h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Here's my project, Peta; it's about the development of the Arthurian legend in literature, along with a précis of the myth (because there wasn't one already in the Guide).

If you haven't got the email I sent you about this, Cloviscat and I are thinking of doing separate entries on King Arthur (me doing the literature, she the historical basis) but if you feel that it would be better that we combined them, then please let either of us know.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/h2g2/guide/A533747

Hi NexusSeven

I think this is a great idea for the project, I'll update the page tomorrow.

I think it'd work well as two separate entries, but maybe time them, so that they go up on the front page either at the same time, or one after another, what do you think?

If Cloviscat wants to do a separate entry, she'd need to complete a separate project page, can you mention that to her? Otherwise, of course, she can quite happily join in with your project... Do you get the feeling we're back where we started? ;-
)

I'll count this as two Projects for the moment, and I'll expect to hear from Cloviscat shortly; how does that sound?

Thanks Nexus!

Hi!

If you would like I could forward some information regarding the historical/mythical antecedents of the legend. For example, were you aware that the name 'Excalibur' may have roots in the phrase 'Ex khalibre'(sp?), which I think is Arabic of something meaning literally, 'from the mould', as in forges and smith-work.? The development of art and science of working and tempering steel may have formed a small part of the legend.

I am also interested in the 'Rex Futurus' part of your project. Did you have anything particular in mind for that section? Is it to speculate on the prophecy of a 'second coming' of the King? (Arthur, not Elvis)

Thanks Peta!

Taliesin, the 'Rex Futurus' part of my project I envisaged as being a look at how the portrayal of Arthur has developed in the last 100 years or so, specifically with the development of cinema and increasingly revisionist or subjective interpretations of the legend.

Would you like to be involved in this?

'revisionist' 'subjective' Ahh, these words are music to my ears! I'll help in any way I can...

King Arthur in Hollywood!

BTW, we need a 'knight' smiley, don't ya think?

So, what we need here is a look at a sampling of cinematic, dramatic and literary treatments of the legend, or aspects of the legend, correct?

What other parameters? For example, there are uncounted fantasy novels regarding the King Arthur story, not to mention the Disney version... then there are related stories, such as the tale of Parsifal..

Sounds like fun. Let me know if there is/are any specific things you would like me to look at, or if/and you have material for me to review/analyse/precis. I'll put on the

I'd be more than happy if you wanted to do "'Rex Futurus': Arthur in the 20th and 21st Centuries". Just create a new entry with that as its title, I'll put a link to it on the project title page in place of the existing one and you can get cracking!

The one thing I will say is that I reckon you've got to mention Monty Python, John Boorman's Excalibur (if only coz I like it ), Mark Twain's "A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court", TH White (plus Disney interpretation of same) and Bernard Cornwell's recent revisionist Winter King Chronicles.
If you need any further info on these or anything else, please ask.

I have read/seen most of the variations mentioned in your message, except the last:

Bernard Cornwell's recent revisionist Winter King Chronicles.

I will attempt to locate them (it?) at the local library, but may have to order from the district library. I am a fast reader, but obtaining the book(s) may take a few days...

I am looking forward to viewing the Python movie once more

As for the name Excalibur, I think it only appeared in Malory, or perhaps a bit before in the french Vulgate. In the Mabinogion it's Caledvwlch. Monmouth transformed it to Caliburn, and hence Excalibur.

You don't have to look at it in Arabic to interprete Excalibur. It was forged to recall the latin "ex calce liberata", that is "released from the stone". But it has no connection with the origins, as it was forged centuries later.

Besides in the early tales there are always two swords. One of them Uther Pendragon had driven in the stone. This was the one Arthur took, but it does not appear afterwards, it only makes him the King. The second one is Caledvwlch and it's given to Arthur by the Lady of the Lake as a token of magic strenght. This is what Graham Chapman alludes to at the beginning of Monty Python and the Holy Grail. Therefore Excalibur was never taken out of any stone...

so the 'released from the stone' blade was never actually taken from the stone...

sounds more like a Zen aphorism

Yeah. Yet I don't think Malory could have expected °that°!

OK guys, just to let you know if you haven't seen it already, that this project is now officially up and running, and the deadline is six weeks from now, which I think puts it in early June. Do you guys know what you're doing and how it's going to fit into the project? If not, or if you have any queries or suggestions at all, please let me know.

Right, time to get cracking on a bit of research...

Hi, Nexus

I just got started on this, and will be collating some material later this week -- including the videos (I hope!)

I will borrow the books from the local library, or puchase one or two at a used book store -- we have an incredible second hand bookstore a couple hours drive from here

I noticed you have me listed as doing the 'historical roots' secion. I assume this is an error, as it has already been started...

Tal

hic iacet arthurus
rex quondam rexque futurus

I think you're right Tal. I suppose ou're doing the rex futurus and I do the "literary roots"...

Hi guys;

The reason I've put you, Taliesin, down for the literary roots even though it appears to have been started already is because I'd already jotted down a bit before you volunteered to help. If you'd like to use what I've already written as a starting point, then please do; likewise if you'd rather junk it, then go for it! Just start a new entry of your own, copy and paste as much of the existing 'Literary roots' entry as you'd like to use, and I'll link this new entry into the project title page in the place of the old one.

Likewise with the 'rex futurus' entry, PFaT.

Gah!! My mistake! I've totally got you guys mixed up - Sorry! Sorry!

Okay - it's been put right. Sorry about that...

Carry on...

Other translations of Excalibur/Caliburn/Caledfwlch/Caledvwlch are 'cut steel' and 'hard lightning'. As with most old words, particularly ones that have been used a lot, and have thus gone through a long process of Chinese Whispers, it's difficult to say for sure.

Same thing as with sangreal (san greal - Holy Grail; sang real - royal blood), not to mention the question of what a grail is (grail - cup?; graal - plate). Then of course there's lapsit ex coelis (stone from Heaven), lapsit excellis (thing of no worth), lapis exilis (elixir of life) and about a half dozen other similar-looking, but fundamentally different, renderings of the grail's description. I've probably got at least one of the above wrong, but then that probably proves rather than undermines my point.

And never forget that the scabbard is worth...um...Well, however many of the sword it was worth.

Oh, also, 'Any Old Iron', by Anthony Burgess, refers to Excalibur having an 'a' and an 'alpha' encribed on the blade, and having belonged previous to Arthur's custodianship to Attila the Hun and a Roman general named - I believe - Ambrosius. I don't know what the authority on this is, but it might be something to look into. I'd give you more on Any Old Iron, but I only ever read the introduction of my dad's copy, and that was years ago.

Anyway, hope this helps more than hinders.

The Prophet.

rather: lapis ex coellis - stone from the heaven

rather: lapis ex coellis - stone from the heaven

lapis means stone, like in "lapis lazuli", a blue kind of gem