h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Something does not come from nothing, nothing comes from something.

Somebody previously mentioned that "nothing" can't properly be conceived by the mind. I agree. We can only get an understanding of nothing by thinking about 'something' and then imagining it's not there. Leaving us with a type of 'nothing', but a 'nothing' made possible by the reference to something.

So without 'something' to imagine not existing, 'nothing' is a concept we have no understanding of. Ever since before we were born, we have been building our ideas of the world based on sensory perception. The inevitable result is that wherever we look, taste, smell, touch, we sense 'something'.

So our brain has no concept of what 'nothing' is without our learned perception of 'something'.

This is very similar to the Plato/Aristotle debate. Plato believed in the theory of forms (ie concepts exist in our minds before we see real examples) whereas Aristotle believed in natural science (ie by experiencing the real things around us we classify and extrapolate to create concepts).

As you can see, I agree with Aristotle. Without refering to our sensory perceptions of what 'something' is, we can't extrapolate by negation to find a concept of 'nothing'.

So 'nothing' comes from 'something', and never the other way 'round.

cheers
Rob

"Hmmm, what you said."

I belive that everything was nothing and is something until it becomes nothing, i.e., after it's gone & forgotten. With that said, if nothing, that had been something were found, then it would again become something.

C'mon!!! "What you said" Are you some kind of Marx brother? Pep it up a little. At least I could dazzle with blarney. Or semi-literate-philosopically flibjabber. Please do the same.
BTW with the ham sandwich.
God is Love
Love is Blind
God is Ray Charles.
Tanx

I like the Ray Charles bit, but the fallacy there is a little more obvious. Andrea Bocelli is far more likely to be God

"Well, being the first mortal woman...I can say what I like and change my mind as often as I like...so there. As per pepping up...you must not have read all the afore mentioned arguments on this topic. I use to have pep...now I just am pooped We have an interesting argument going on the metaphysical...if you think you're up for it? *taunt* But should you both want to continue to whip this dead horse...I shall continue to pick on you! *wicked laugh* Hope you'll join my friends & myself for the Halloween party at the Crossed Pourposes Pub at the Villa de la Vavoom! It promises to be a wild time. You may even find the answer to this question." *taunt-taunt* ~Pan

Well if we're talking physics here, and percieving the universe from a physical point of view of time rather than a psychological view, then of course something can come from nothing. Because if the speed of light changes, then energy can be created and destroyed. So "something" can come from "nothing". Overruling the sustaining view of the universe, but there you go... However, nothing still doesn't exist because our understanding of the Universe is still like an amoeba trying to comprehend it's own life so how can we say it does?

"HA! Here's the proof...call out to ANY child...use an angery voice
and say, What are you doing? I'll bet you anything the response will be: NOTHING!"
"Now, if a child can perceive 'nothing' why can't we?" ~Pan

HERE'S something...a Halloween party, hope you come!!! http://www.h2g2.com/F52920?thread=84645&post=677678

Pandora, I stand corrected. Hope you are not pooped anymore. But really, let's just call the whole to-may-to, to-mah-to thing off and agree that all those with sight related disorders are God. Better than the alternative, I must say. Yes, I am a proud Pagan-Taoist. I believe that all the many things in this life ALL of them are a result of yin and yang-or emptieness and being. Would it be a stretch to call emptieness nothing. BTW, I tried it out on my stepson Alex, all of 5 years old. He said he was playing with Zurg. Take that Pan.

"Oh...here I go again! May I please have a bit of pepper with my crow?"
"Well, now that I think of it...I bet you didn't REALLY sound mean when you called to your son...you don't seem mean at all...but I'll eat my crow like a good loser."
"I usually just agree to disagree...how's that sound? Since there is no real answer that we will find in our lifetime."

Pan, crow with lots of pepper is bad for your health, no need to go all out on my account. Besides I didn't call out to him meanly. Didn't have the heart. But you are right, the whole argument is silly. God is Helen Keller.

"Oh. I was wondering who God is... thought he was a circus clown!! Sweet of you to not make me eat crow...I can't tell you how much of it I've had to eat here. Hikers can be really strict at times...some of them anyway Would you like to have some of my pineapple pizza then? I do wish you'd don a costume & come to the Halloween party...it's now the busiest thread going!
There may even be someone you know there..besides me...I'm dressed as Cher/Witch of Eastwick & the other two Witches are there too. It's great fun & will be going 'til dawn of Nov. 1st...I cast a spell and all mortals will then go to sleep. HA! How's that from nothing?"

Just a sweetheart to the core, that's me. My wife would agree. Which reminds me. When we first met, we had nothing. Now we are married with a house, a van, two children, and debt out the yinyang. Now that is something.

Are you a Libra? My husband Bear is & he's a sweetie too! We also got something from nothing...our dream home is where a bean field was...we have a huge log home with a heated in ground pool, woods with the river winding everywhere! He & my men friends built this place for me, as I was told I would die before the end of '98 from a rare muscle disease. Everyone worked so hard...but I'm getting well...everyone says they'er happy, but I feel I somehow cheated them by living! They sure worked hard to make my dream come true! Now that's SOMETHING!!!! And who cares about bills? Can't take 'um with you!

About the physics aspect of this topic...

It's been a while since I last read New Scientist, but my admittedly primitive view of the world of physics was that energy can be created and destroyed, but only by conversion into matter... so matter can be converted into energy, and energy into matter, but never can something be made from nothing. Something can only be made of something else...

Maybe I'm wrong - as soon as you think you've got your head around these things some nerd in a lab in Azerbaijan discovers a long-lost subatomic particle and ruins everything...

cheers
Rob

"Eons ago I argued that even a vaccume is something...I think that something can indeed come frome nothing...we just don't use enough of our brain to understand what/how or why."

"RRRRRRRR I HATE TYPEOS!!!!!!...I'm not as dumb as I look...
thankfully One day I shall cut my nails & all will be well."

Yes, a vaccuum is something, in the psychological sense of the word (see my argument above - post 341.

But what about the physical aspects...

"As I said...long ago...I have a vacuum that always has little blue doberman hairs in it!"

"With regard to your meaning of vacuum, there is nothing in it therefore the nothing that's in the vacuum is something. You would say, "Hey, what's in a vacuum?" And I would answer, "A void." Then you might try to 'avoid' further conversation on the topic! HA! I am sorry, but this was the very first topic I posted to in March when I bought Mac. That's why I keep saying it's a dead horse...but I guess that's just one Hiker's view. I am very interested in what you have to say. But try to see what I mean...if there's 'nothing' in a vacuum...then that nothing IS 'something' because it's been noticed." (makes your head spin huh?)

Pan, by an amazing coincidence, my wife and I are both Cancers. I was born June 25th 1971, she born June 25th, 1975 And I am glad you are with us today. I'm cursed/blessed with Krone's disease. Sure, not as bad as a rare muscle disease. But I have learned to deal with the cards I have. It looks like you have too. Wow your story there, brings a tear to my eye. Count on Love, people. It is something from nothing.