A Conversation for Writing Guidelines
makhfour-islam Started conversation Jun 2, 2008
What is beauty?,it is said that in west there is one view,this is that who human have white colour that is smart and handsome but that black human have not right to talk about it although world have changed and this is 21st century,never the less what are the reasons of english humans behavior with the asian countris or muslims and black human?
Rod Posted Jun 8, 2008
OK, makhfour-islam. You haven't had a reply so far, perhaps because of some misgivings within this community. If you click on this link, you may get some feeling for why (scroll up to post 1 to start): http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/brunel/F19585?thread=5547452&show=20&skip=0#pi3 Here's a quick, simple answer to your first question: What is beauty? It depends what you're asking about - I'll take the question literally (what you actually asked): 1) (briefly) symmetry. 2) a saying: 'beauty is in the eye of the beholder' that is, beauty for you may not be for me, and vice-versa (the other way around) 3) In the West there is one view... Not really surprising is it? You will have your views too, that may - or may not not coincide with mine? Once we can establish communication (what it is you're actually asking), you may well find others joining in. RodtheBrit.
U12046482 Posted Jun 11, 2008
"In the West there is one view"
I disagree. Someone, somewhere, at some stage, told Sarah Jessica Parker she was attractive. I have no idea why. Someone, somewhere, at some stage, told the same thing to Rene Zellweger. I have no idea why these two ugly women are able to make a living pretending they are pretty... but that's just me. Presumably *someone* thinks they are.
There are many, many views of what "westerners" consider attractive. There is *something* of a consensus in the mainstream media. But it would be a terribly naive error to think that what you see on the cover of FHM represents what all or even most men actually want in a real woman. Real men's tastes are, in my experience, far more varied than the cookie-cutter bimbos of the Nuts/Zoo style.
Through history, societal standards of beauty or attractiveness generally centre on the viewer's subconscious assessment of whether the person will make a good parent. And that's all.
How do we make such a judgement? What are our criteria? Obviously, as times change, the things that make a good parent change.
Going back into history, when food is scarce, fleshier women are more attractive - skinny chicks are no good at childbearing, and the implication of being a porker is that you've had plenty to eat and are therefore rich, ergo, good catch. Similarly, pale skin is desirable because only the lower orders spend time out in the open doing backbreaking manual work, while the more refined lady spends her time indoors doing sewing and whatnot. So, beautiful = blubbery and pale.
But nowadays that doesn't work. Anyone can get fat, just look around. And we realise now that obesity is bad for health. And we also know to our cost that losing weight or maintaining a healthy diet can be difficult, and therefore possibly costly. So... thin women become more desirable. Not ridiculously skinny, but definitely not fat. Also, since most mortgage slave plebs spend their days in offices and factories, the suntan becomes more of an indicator of idle wealth. So the thin, tanned beachbunny becomes the ideal. The latter factor is possible going to pass away thanks to skin cancer etc., but that's how it got to be the standard.
As for racial standards, the most reliable evolutionary strategy appears to be to breed preferentially with someone who looks quite like you, but not TOO much like you. We tend, despite any liberal tendencies, to be attracted to people who look a bit like we do. Not just Westerners, of course - EVERYONE, worldwide, in general breeds within their racial group, but outwith their extended family. Our tastes are informed by our genetics, like it or not.
Of course, there will always be the statistical outliers, people whose intellectual tastes are informed by other things. For some reason I find Japanese women terrifically attractive, and I have no Japanese ancestors at all. But these are much the exception. Perhaps such things are still evolutionarily explicable anyway - a small proportion to keep the gene pool mixed up.
But don't for a moment believe that "western" tastes are unique in this. Japan, for instance, again, is a remarkably racially homogeneous society, far, far more so than any European country I've visited. Does it matter?
makhfour-islam Posted Jun 12, 2008
I cannot consider the view of westren but it is considered by me that attraction is also beauty but this is also going up truly that beauty is remaining in the viewer or we can say that everything that is liked by you that is beauty but there is an other question that is this, beauty is a thing that is touched by us or not. Is beauty like hardware or software?
Rod Posted Jun 12, 2008
I acknowledge that you must not consider my views.
Someone would be attracted to beauty. Attraction itself is not beauty (though some may call it that).
Beauty is not touched by us. We are touched by beauty.
Is beauty like hardware or software? It can be.
'Hardware': mountains and lakes can be beautiful.
'Software': Poetry and prose can be beautiful.
If you meant in the computer sense, then yes:
A piece of hardware can be beautiful, as an artefact.
A computer program can be beautiful, in its functioning.
Both can be beautiful in design or in concept, though perhaps not obviously so without more than normal knowledge of the processes.
One dictionary definition is
Beauty: the qualities that give pleasure to the senses
~ jwf ~ scribblo ergo sum Posted Jun 12, 2008
>> Is beauty like hardware or software? <<
That is a very interesting question? It will pre-occupy my mind for quite some time as I reflect on several aspects of 'beauty'.
I suppose at some level there has to be some hardware, a basic level of symmetry and harmony in form and texture and tone. One extremely attractive and athletic black woman like Naomi Campbell for example could classify as an example of beauty based on her hardware alone. But from what little I know of her, from media reports, I doubt she has any software I'd be interested in.
Glad to see that makhfour-islam is still with us and I hope we can expand our conversation into a general discussion of the differences that seem to be causing so much conflict between our cultures. But I warn you I have no faith in any god or religious system and will not, can not, accept any argument based soley on religious dogma from anyone (except possibly a Buddhist - who wouldn't consider it dogma or even necessarily true).
~ jwf ~ scribblo ergo sum Posted Jun 19, 2008
Where'd he go?
I do hope all is well.
Rod Posted Jun 19, 2008
and there was me getting excited - '1 new post'
Ach, don't know... It was a few days before his latest post.
~ jwf ~ scribblo ergo sum Posted Jun 20, 2008
And he wrote this entry way back in March 2008
Rod Posted Jun 21, 2008
Thanks for pointing that out, ~ jwf ~. Do you agree with my assessment as follows?
He's struggling, like the rest of us, with interpretation of his senses, with understanding the outlook of an alien culture and with who to trust regarding 'their' interpretation of 'their' senses.
On top of that he's struggling to get us to take him seriously in non-trivial subjects.
makhfour-islam, are you still here? Please reply.
I suggest you change your Personal Space:
- Remove your personal details (not all of us here are benevolent).
Perhaps the following would be better suited to your purpose? I have made direct changes where appropriate (into lower case, as UPPER CASE is seen as SHOUTING at us!).
I am makhfour-islam, my nationality is Pakistani, my nation is Urdu mother tongue is Sindhi. I know English but little bit.
Who reader which reads my creation he can guide me. I am hopeless to get my love because there is not any chance or it can say that this is complex of fate.
Godhead creates human and blessed by precious sense but it is fact that human cannot understand completely the other human.
I am a poet and writer in my language, I am trying to write in English so this is my request that please guide me.
To strong the humanity friendship is the best relationship and I am saying to all of you that become my friends, Well where there is a will there is a way.
As you progress with your new language you can make changes to improve our understanding of you.
~ jwf ~ scribblo ergo sum Posted Jun 23, 2008
Key: Complain about this post
- 1: makhfour-islam (Jun 2, 2008)
- 2: Rod (Jun 8, 2008)
- 3: U12046482 (Jun 11, 2008)
- 4: Rod (Jun 11, 2008)
- 5: makhfour-islam (Jun 12, 2008)
- 6: Rod (Jun 12, 2008)
- 7: ~ jwf ~ scribblo ergo sum (Jun 12, 2008)
- 8: ~ jwf ~ scribblo ergo sum (Jun 19, 2008)
- 9: Rod (Jun 19, 2008)
- 10: ~ jwf ~ scribblo ergo sum (Jun 20, 2008)
- 11: Rod (Jun 21, 2008)
- 12: ~ jwf ~ scribblo ergo sum (Jun 23, 2008)
- 13: Rod (Jun 23, 2008)