A Conversation for Wicca- a Legacy of Persecution
A500671- Wicca- a Legacy of Persecution
soeasilyamused, or sea Started conversation Jan 2, 2001
http://www.h2g2.com/A500671
I noticed that the Guide lacks an edited entry on Wicca, so I decided to attempt to provide one.
The entry discusses The Burning Times, Wicca, Wiccans and their beliefs, and some common misconceptions about Wiccans.
I'll admit that it's a bit on the lengthy side.
A500671- Wicca- a Legacy of Persecution
Martin Harper Posted Jan 3, 2001
Good entry. Scratch that - excellent entry. Nicely structured, good use of quotes, and (barring the nits I'll give below) well-balanced. You give a good feel for the religion too.
You know this - but we do have a couple of wiccan entries: http://www.h2g2.com/Search?searchstring=wicca+wiccan&searchtype=article&showapproved=1
There's stuff I'm unsure on. This is because I'm not wiccan, so some distinctions and subtleties pass me by... so all of this should be read with several handfuls of salt - feel free to correct where my knowledge is wrong.
It's not entirely clear, but I think you're saying that all wiccans are witches, but there are non-wiccan witches? Hmm - there are clearly non-wiccan practitioners of magick - but I'm not sure they'd all be enthusiastic about being called witches. Are you sure about this?
Isis, Osiris, Horus - I wasn't aware that wiccans encorporated egyption elements into their religion - myself, I'd leave out that line - crimes against egypt are seperate to crimes against wicca...
I think calling Satan a deity is kinda asking for trouble. Perhaps "figure" would be more sensitive? Similarly "a new religion that started with rulers and upper classes - Christianity" - many would say that it started with fishermen and such nonsense. Perhaps say it was spread by the rulers, or something like that, which is more certain?
The rest of that section is rather chilling - and liable, perhaps, to cause more offence - but it's all completely true - and it works well to confront the source of bad stereotypes directly.
Talking of stereotypes, the common misconceptions section is good, but I think it would do better to come earlier - perhaps right at the start? You missed one, btw - "wicca is just another teenage fad".
The para about magick under 'about wicca' is good: but I feel you should say "magick is very real _to_witches_": this isn't the section about beliefs, so the qualification is needed, I think.
You need to work out a consistent capitalisation: eg, sometimes you capitalise Witch, and sometimes not. Make a decision one way or the other.
Online refs, where available, would be good. We all love links...
> "A Wiccan will never curse you"
Umm - surely they might, or they might not. They would seem unlikely to, given their belief in the threefold law - but xtians believe in hell, but seem to sin from time to time. "never" is perhaps too strong? or not?
I think there's other stuff you might add. Broomsticks (misconception?), naked dancing?, etc, etc. Gods: you say many worship greek gods, etc - yet you also talk about "The Goddess" - who is this goddess? what's her name? shoe size? does she have a sense of humour? What are famous wiccan books? famous wiccans? What might one do if one wanted to investigate wicca as a religion for one? What's the history of wicca before the Burnings? Is there anything else you can tell us about Wiccan Magick? So many questions - so little time: all this stuff is optional - it isn't *needed*, but it'd all be fascinating, imo.
Great entry - I'm starting to look forward to reading your entries in PR...
A500671- Wicca- a Legacy of Persecution
Lonnytunes - Winter Is Here Posted Jan 3, 2001
A317305 'Aradia' or 'The Gospel of the Witches' by Charles G Leland
Is an edited h2g2 article about Wicca.
A500671- Wicca- a Legacy of Persecution
Lonnytunes - Winter Is Here Posted Jan 3, 2001
Sea, what I meant to say is you may like to link your excellent article to the one about the Wicca bible.
A500671- Wicca- a Legacy of Persecution
Administrator-General (5+0+9)*3+0 Posted Jan 3, 2001
A couple of nitpicks:
1. The Christian Trinity is God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit. Mary didn't make the cut.
2. Mary, however, is the most-prayed-to Christian saint, and fulfills many of the roles reserved for the Goddess in Wiccan worship.
A500671- Wicca- a Legacy of Persecution
soeasilyamused, or sea Posted Jan 3, 2001
*wonders why she put mary* i was raised catholic, you see, so i should have known that. my apologies.
when i said that a wiccan will NEVER curse you, i meant it. wiccans practice white magick, which means they don't harm anyone. it's part of the religion. they won't do it.
there ARE non-wiccan witches. not all christians are catholics, but all catholics are christians. wicca is a subdivision of paganism.
loony, i myself have never heard of a "wiccan bible", although i DID see that entry when i searched the guide. interesting.
also, when i said that there weren't any entries on wicca, i simply meant that there weren't any in-depth, informative ones. the ones that exist... well, they don't really make the cut.
thank you for the constructive criticism, though. i will have a look into your suggestions.
A500671- Wicca- a Legacy of Persecution
Zak T Duck Posted Jan 3, 2001
I've never really known much about this subject or its origins, but your article has explained a lot to me. Hopefully it will to a lot of other people too.
There is a Pagan Society at Liverpool Uni, and that has a fair few Wiccan members amongst their numbers. The society was at one time never going to exist as the Bishop of Liverpool put his foot down and declared that such a society would be "evil". It just goes to show you that even today such prejudices still exist against the Old Ways.
A500671- Wicca- a Legacy of Persecution
Martin Harper Posted Jan 3, 2001
oh I see: so "witch" is the term for paganism in general, whereas "wiccan" is for wicca in particular. I was thinking of non-pagans: satanists, worshippers of Cthul'hu, and other such oddities, who similarly use the term Magick, but wouldn't call themselves witches. Perhaps you could clarify that "witch" is a term for *pagan* practitioners of magick? Or have I grabbed the wrong end of the stick again?
I'm not meaning to criticise wiccans in any way - but "Thou shalt not kill" is part of the christian religion, and I don't see that being 100% successful. Surely wiccans are just normal people like everyone else, and as such as fallible as the rest of us? Are you saying that wiccans won't curse because they can't? IE cursing isn't part of wiccan magick? Or something else?
Spelling lessons
Lonnytunes - Winter Is Here Posted Jan 3, 2001
Spelling lessons
From a mainstream New Zealand newspaper
By HELEN BAIN
Once witches cast their spells over boiling cauldrons. Today, they write bestsellers. Helen Bain meets Titania Hardie.
There are rules for witches, and Titania Hardie is breaking every one of them.
The rules - as set down everywhere from Grimm's Fairytales to the Blair Witch Project - are quite clear. Witches are ugly and warty, with hooked noses; they are not pretty and blond. They fly on broomsticks, not Air New Zealand. They live with black cats in hovels in dark, creepy forests; they don't live with their film producer husband and two children in Somerset. And, most importantly, witches are wicked and nasty.
Titania, witch and author, who is visiting New Zealand this week, is definitely not wicked and nasty. She says magic must never be used to hurt or gain control over anyone, and her Wiccan faith forbids it.
"Use it instead as your own secret weapon - like wearing a wonderbra or a fabulous designer fragrance," she suggests in her book of spells, Hocus Pocus.
Titania (yes, it is her real name) is a third-generation witch, born and brought up in Australia. She learned witchcraft from her Italian mother and Cornish grandmother, who were both witches. Now her own daughters, Samantha, 12, and Zephyrine, three, also take an active interest in magic.
She says the evil hag stereotype that witches suffer from is the result of centuries of "bad press". (The hangover effect of this bad PR is such that she doesn't tend to write "witch" on immigration forms when she travels, though she used to write "clairvoyant" till she got sick of customs officials joking about whether she could predict if they would search her bag or not.)
With the rise of patriarchal Christianity, women with the power to heal and counsel were seen as a threat, and were painted as evil to remove the threat to the churches' monopoly on power. Fairy stories were particularly insidious in giving witches a bad image because they worked on impressionable young children.
Titania says she much prefers the impression given by the good witch in The Wizard of Oz, and now the hugely successful Harry Potter books.
Her own books sell by the hundreds of thousands around the world, providing readers with spells on everything from their love lives to their finances. The obvious question is do they work?"Absolutely," Titania says, emphatically.
She says 75 per cent of a spell is "pure, simple science" - such as the use of herbs to enhance or alter mood or state of mind.
"But there is a 25 per cent area where I don't know why it works, but it does work. It's not vital to their success to believe in them - you can do them sort of tongue-in-cheek for fun and they still work."
Many of the rituals of everyday life stem from traditional magic beliefs: blowing out candles on a birthday cake, clinking glasses together in a toast, avoiding walking under ladders.
Magic, Titania says, comes naturally to many people - often they just don't know it.
I'm not entirely convinced of my innate magical abilities, but Titania's suggestion that question eight (out of a possible 100) in her Oraqle book for predicting the future - "Should I remain living where I am?" - could be particularly relevant to my life, gives me some pause for thought. I have been considering recently whether I should buy a house. Spooky . . . or maybe not - you can decide for yourself by trying some of Titania's spells.
To attract a lover: Gather or buy a large bunch of marjoram on a Friday morning during the first seven days of any moon and tie it with red ribbon. At the end of the day, divide the bunch into smaller bunches, tie them with red ribbon and place them in every room of your house, keeping one sprig aside. Around 6pm, take this sprig, secure it with some strands of your hair and fasten to a piece of paper with your name on it. Kiss the herb, offer it to the moon, ask that she find you your partner of "true mind" and cast it into a river or stream. Within a month, you should have had some offers.
To disenchant an unwantedlover (works best cast during the waning moon): Plant a piece of paper with the unwanted lover's name on it in a pot or the ground, followed by a daffodil bulb (a symbol of rebuttal). Every day for seven days, tell the daffodil you cannot return his affections but wish him well with another lover. On the seventh day, burn camphor in your home all day. Once the daffodil blooms, all danger will have passed, and meanwhile wear some camphor oil each time you meet.
To make over-protective parents loosen their grip: On a waning moon, take a metre of red ribbon and bind it around the index finger of your right hand. Place it to your "third eye" (centre of forehead), close your eyes and think lovingly of your parents. Look deeply at a photo of them while sending a strong mental message to them to loosen their hold without fear of losing your love. Cut the ribbon in half, using pinking shears tied with a white bow. Kiss both halves of ribbon and keep them in separate drawers. To deal with a psychotic pet: Cleanse the animal's sleeping quarters by sending a beam of "white light" from your mind's eye around the area. Sprinkle with lemon balm or clary sage essential oils. Burn a blue candle while the animal watches, repeat their name three times, followed by "calm calm calm" several times. Give the animal a few chopped catmint leaves. For the next week, play the animal some classical music (softly) for half an hour a day (Mozart and Monteverdi are recommended) and stroke and play with the animal.
To get rid of warts: By moonlight, on a waning moon, bathe the wart in a silver dish half-filled with water in which you have placed some dandelions. Say: "By the moon's eternal light, drive away this ugly sight." Rub the dandelions on to the wart to release sap. Bury or discard the dandelions. Last thing at night, dab some lemon essential oil on the wart. By morning, you will see an improvement - keep doing the spell for the rest of the waning moon.
To improve your finances: On a waxing moon, preferably on a Thursday, burn some hyssop essential oil and place some freshly cut daisies on a green cloth. Wind one metre of red ribbon around the middle finger of your right hand and place on your breast. Concentrate on a prosperous earning period ahead (but don't let greed turn your head). Take a green candle, anoint it with hyssop oil, and light it with a burning banknote of any currency worth about US$1, saying: "Within one week, these things we seek will come within our power. All worries go and money flow in plenty from this hour." Let the candle burn down and keep the stub tied with the red ribbon in a bow for a week.
Spelling lessons
Bilge Posted Jan 3, 2001
I may have come in a little late for comments but this is a superb entry. Very informative, the rumour bit was great, this is a brilliant entry!
Spelling lessons
soeasilyamused, or sea Posted Jan 4, 2001
*bows* thank you, thank you....
and thank you, lucinda, for helping me to see the areas of the entry that are difficult to understand. i shall definitely make sure i define "witch" more clearly.
Spelling lessons
soeasilyamused, or sea Posted Jan 4, 2001
and thank you, loony, for the article. it's further proof of my... umm... right-ness. *grin* gimme a break, it's late!
Spelling lessons
Ariel Posted Jan 4, 2001
What a great article! I found it very compelling and well written, and I hope it makes it through the editorial process.
I did have a couple of questions however. If this is the wrong place for these comments I apologise. But here I go
Everything you wrote was in tune with my own understanding of the subject. About two weeks ago, however, I ran across a book review in the NY Times that covered the second of two books which represent a "new scholarship" on the history of Wicca in particular and women's spirituality in general. I was quite perplexed by what I read in the reviews because these are respected scholars ( one was a woman) who are basically completely debunking everything I had previously read about the history of Wicca, the Burning Times, etc. More to the point, Starhawk was quoted as "revising" her understanding of the factual history of Wicca based upon the work of these scholars. She now considers it a historical "mythology" that is still true to the spirit of the religion. While I see her point, I was still rather stunned by this revelation, and confess I still am.
I was wondering if it would be important to include a comment in your entry on this "new scholarship?" I more than happy to dig out the article if you would like, but I must confess I haven't read the original material it was reviewing yet.
cheers-
Ari
Spelling lessons
soeasilyamused, or sea Posted Jan 5, 2001
[sea] i would, except for the fact that i have absolutely NO idea about what you are referring to, and therefore, i can't. i'll look into it though...
Spelling lessons
Tube - the being being back for the time being Posted Jan 5, 2001
Yep, Great article! One thing, though: "Magick"? AFAIK the k was added by Aleister Crowley (or did he pick it up from somewhere else?). Maybe you want to point out that Wicca's got no ties with Crowley etc. since I should suspect most people to associate "magick" with the darker side of things.
Cheers
Tube
Spelling lessons
Zak T Duck Posted Jan 5, 2001
Great news, your entry has been recommended for the edited guide. You will be contacted by email when the entry has been edited by one of the sub editors and is ready to make it in. Please be patient though as there is a little bit of a queue.
Congratulations and keep up the excellent work.
Croz
Spelling lessons
Ariel Posted Jan 5, 2001
Strickly FYI: I found a reference to one of those articles on the New York Times archives (www.NYTimes.com)
Here you go:
Goddess Theory
By Natalie Angier
The Myth of Matriarchal Prehistory Why an Invented Past Won't Give Women a Future. By Cynthia Eller. 276 pp. Boston: Beacon
cheers-
Karen
Spelling lessons
soeasilyamused, or sea Posted Jan 6, 2001
[sea] thanks, ariel... and croz as well! i'm excited!
Congratulations!
h2g2 auto-messages Posted Jan 8, 2001
Editorial Note: This thread has been moved out of the Peer Review forum because this entry has now been recommended for the Edited Guide.
If they haven't been along already, the Scout who recommended your entry will post here soon, to let you know what happens next. Meanwhile you can find out what will happen to your entry here: http://www.h2g2.com/SubEditors-Process
Congratulations!
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A500671- Wicca- a Legacy of Persecution
- 1: soeasilyamused, or sea (Jan 2, 2001)
- 2: Martin Harper (Jan 3, 2001)
- 3: Lonnytunes - Winter Is Here (Jan 3, 2001)
- 4: Lonnytunes - Winter Is Here (Jan 3, 2001)
- 5: Administrator-General (5+0+9)*3+0 (Jan 3, 2001)
- 6: soeasilyamused, or sea (Jan 3, 2001)
- 7: Zak T Duck (Jan 3, 2001)
- 8: Martin Harper (Jan 3, 2001)
- 9: Lonnytunes - Winter Is Here (Jan 3, 2001)
- 10: Bilge (Jan 3, 2001)
- 11: soeasilyamused, or sea (Jan 4, 2001)
- 12: soeasilyamused, or sea (Jan 4, 2001)
- 13: Ariel (Jan 4, 2001)
- 14: soeasilyamused, or sea (Jan 5, 2001)
- 15: Tube - the being being back for the time being (Jan 5, 2001)
- 16: Zak T Duck (Jan 5, 2001)
- 17: Ariel (Jan 5, 2001)
- 18: soeasilyamused, or sea (Jan 6, 2001)
- 19: h2g2 auto-messages (Jan 8, 2001)
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