h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Thankyou...

"I'd first like to thank you for your efforts. I, however, want to know where you obtained the information on which you are bassing this petition? I find it odd that you came to the Pub to post your information. Is this because it is a busy thread? Before I sing anything...I will need MUCH more inforemation. Thank you very
much & I look forward to further discussion of this matter with you." ~Pan

Hi Pandora,

The discussions are based on the dialogue created over at the soapbox forum and careful reading of the sites policies.

I am in the process of posting it where ever there are people in numbers, because I consider it a very important issue, and I do apologise for the intrusion...

M.K*

"I don't find it an intrusion...I just need more information. I feel that h2g2 has been very kind to me. I wouldn't want to offend the same folks who have made it possible for me to make life long friends, whom I never would have met otherwise. And this is such a different type of site...I don't want to loose it. I hope you can understand my concerns. I too have wondered about what I write here...my fears have kept me from writting certain things that I wouldn't want to NOT have some control over. The last time I went over the policies, it seems that I read something to the effect that we always have rights to what we write, evn though h2g2 can use all or part of anything we submit. Am I wrong?"
Again, thank you!! ~Pan

You have every right to pursue means of publishing yourself, but in the commercial world there aren't many publishers willing to effectively 'share' their copyright with a competitor. So it's neigh on useless unless you pursue self publishing.

As far as the friends you have gathered here, I too have many friends here I still would like to interact with, but at the end of the day you have to decide whether its is worth being taken of to do so...

M.K*

"HA! I'm not all that sure that what I write (here) is important enough to worry about. The book I am writting, will certainly not be written here...a peom here or there, jokes, ideas to share with other h2g2ers...nothing Earth shattering. I just don't want to make the folks in the 'Tower' mad at me. I would like to talk more with you about this...just now, it's time to get ready for my counseling job...it's nearly 11 pm here. If you have anything that you would like to talk over, without posting it here, you are welcome to E me. As is anyone who would like to talk - off line, as it were. The number @ the begining of my address is a zero."

[email protected]

"Don't feel the need to e me, if you are completely comfy with saying what you want here. Just know that you are welcome to."
~Pan (I owe, I owe, tis off to work I go...)

The claim wishing for explore ground for payment is, in my eyes, an impractical one. I was very surprised when I found shopping baskets slapped onto some of my entries without consent - yes, it is rude for these people to make money off my effort, without even asking. One reason why I'll lend my support here. But asking for payment, however small, is not the direction I'd go in. I've written my guide entries for pleasure and to relive boredom. I for one have no concerns for making money from them. Besides, how would you get the dough to you? No way will I ever give h2g2 my credit card number....

*hopes he hasn't misinterpreted anything*

Now, this is a Rights To Have rights petition. I think some peoples rights are outright abused. There is a distinct lack of equality onsite, seeing as the whole site has a tone that is blatantly pro Judeo-Christianity, and the PTB have made it clear to me that they support this. Not in writing, not in policy, in actions.
If you give people freedom of speech, you might as well be consistant. It would be nice if those who have not submitted to the corruption of the church and h2g2 to have a better right to saying something without being lynched.

There also seems to be a policy to kneecap people without so much as a damn given to the circumstances. One complaint is all that is required, and you have action taken against you. No ifs, no buts. Seeing as the PTB boast about having 60K+ registered researchers (despite the fact that barely 1% of these return after registering), one person complaining out of all of these is hardly fair grounds, is it?

Thank you.

I think it is important, Mr A, to respect other people's religious rights. Therefore you must respect them as long as they respect you. You could say that there is a blatant anti sexist or racist movement on H2G2, and this is obvioously here for a reason. No one should be bad mouthed for what they believe. I think it better that if you were not to prosthletyse (I have no proof - only suspicions, plaese don't be offended if I am wrong) against religion, this problem would not arise. I have no problem with atheism as a religious standpoint. I do have a problem with the atheists who feel they are superior enough to have risen over the credulous masses (or miniorities) and then go on to mock or try to convert religious people. Again, if it is not you doing this, then my apologies.

So, Mike Kershaw, if you could leave out the bit concerning religious bias, I would be grateful. I support your ideas, but am unwilling to sign until someone employed by H2G2 has a say.

Hi Matthew

I'm afraid that I have to echo Pandora's statement that I'm not prepared to put my name to something until I know more and am able to make an informed opinion.

I'd be interested to know what is it that has prompted your current course of action? Do you feel that h2g2 P.T.B. have somehow taken advantage of it's researchers in some underhand way?

As things stand, I'm happy for h2g2 to use anything that I write as my witterings are of little importance and I'd be flattered to think that anyone would use it. It would be nice were I to be notified and credited for it, but I would not expect payment. Mind you, I'm not the type of person who places much on monitory gain in the first place...

However, if h2g2 were a community that required payment for our participation, I might be of a different opinion. As Pandora has said, I have too much fun here and have made many friends to bear any ill will to "Them at t' Towers".

Regarding what most publishers will publish:

Matthew is correct and incorrect. Most publishers do not seek exclusive contracts. (Except perhaps in the book-length industry, but we are referring to shorter works here -- stories, poems, essays) However most do seek what is known as "First Rights" -- The right to publish something first. Sometimes this is phrased by North American publishers as "First North American Rights" in which case it can be previously published elsewhere, but H2G2 would probably be considered a world-wide publication even though the computers are in England.

While most publishers of shorter work seek first-rights there are many who will print previously published material. And H2G2 does seem to allow this in their policy. I question the line in the petition that says you run the risk of being sued for copyright breach if you publish something elsewhere. H2G2 appeared to give that opening in their policy when I read it. What does non-exclusive mean if it doesn't mean you have the right to publish it elsewhere if the publication in question allows previously-published material?

I knew from day one not to put too much of my poetry and fiction here. While I have written several guide entries, it would have been hard to publish much of it elsewhere. Those publishing essays and creative non-fiction are usually seeking slightly longer material. I look at this as good writing practice, along with the knowledge that I helped to build a fun-source of knowledge.

If you can prove to me that non-exclusive doesn't mean non-exclusive -- and that one *DOES* run the risk of being sued by H2G2 for breach of copyright for trying to publish elsewhere, then I feel you have a legitimate complaint, because their site policy would then be misleading. But as it is, it didn't mislead me.

Matt: I'm curious to know what exactly it is you hope to accomplish by this. I myself am an aspiring writer, and I expect to be published. I protect my copyrights to the stuff I intend to publish by never discussing it or posting bits of it on site. I therefore hold sole copyright on it, and can sell it at will. The things I write on H2G2 are things that I never expect to publish... when I'm not writing a college thesis, I'm writing some simple piece that would never be published anywhere else.

H2G2 has to have copyright to the work you post here if they're going to make any money. They have to demonstrate the ability to make money in order to keep their investors happy. They have to keep their investors happy to keep this place going. If you intend to undermine that, you intend to undermine the entire financial underpinnings of this place, and it will collapse beneath you.

H2G2 therefore must have copyrights. They agree to share those copyrights with us as a gesture of good faith. That means we can reproduce anything we write ourselves in other venues... our own personal web sites, perhaps. But yes, selling it would be a thorny issue. However, if you feel there is money to be gained, you can always buy your copyrights from H2G2. I'm sure they wouldn't mind. They might end up wiping your stuff off their harddrives as a legal protection, but that's the price you pay for sole rights.

Your implication that this is all one big conspiracy is getting to be irritating. The Towers let us know from day one what the score was, as if it wasn't already bleedingly obvious. If you're really so concerned over your intellectual property, then the only thing I can advise you to do is this: stop posting. Stop writing. Stop being a part of H2G2. In that way, everything you generate will be yours and yours alone.

As for the rest of us, leave us the hell alone. I really didn't appreciate you spamming what was otherwise an outstanding conversation. I guess you've gotten tired of irritating the Towers with your personal agenda, and have decided to annoy the rest of the community. QUIT IT!!

"Er, that was rather harsh."

"I think you have your own reasons and perhaps we are just not understanding what it is you are really trying to say. You asked if the friends I've made here are worth giving up the rights to what I have written? Yes they are!!! I not only interact with my friends on h2g2 but in my home as well...via Mac, snail mail, telphone & soon some of us will be meeting face to face. If h2g2 is able to make a few dollars from something I write, I say yeah! It's a way for me to pay them back for all they have given me. As a matter of fact, now that I think of it, I think I owe it to h2g2 to try to wrtie something they can make money from!"

"I'm sorry, I feel you won't be able to find the support here that you were hoping for. I hate to see anyone leave...esp. someone with talent! But I think most of us are here for the 'fun' of it. Would it be possible for you to just have fun here and go after your money making elsewhere? I do hope your feelings become mended enough for you to stick around." ~Love & Peace ~Pan

I have to agree with the Colonel. Nobody comes to H2G2 with the intent to write a best-selling novel, or make money; we come here to be a part of an online community and have a generally good time. H2G2 has never violated my or anyone else's rights that I know of. Asking the PTB to give up their copyrights and pay us is frankly not going to accomplish anything--they have no reason to listen. I'd actually be ecstatic if I found out that something I wrote had the capability to make someone money! My advice is this: if you really think you're in some serious danger, leave. If you can't, then at least stop bothering the forums with huge posts that have nothing to do with the topic.

Marc
P.S. Regarding the "greater impetus to add more guide entries", I don't think that's a problem... have you seen the number of reccomended Entries as it is? It takes forever to get your work looked at...

I have to wonder why Matt is so concerned. The only part of the Guide that has any market value whatsoever is the Edited Guide. The rest is silly conversations with people who think they're funny, heated diatribes between people who think they're experts, and community insider stuff that wouldn't make any sense to the rest of the world. When you consider that Matt, between two identities, has contributed just two brief articles to the Edited Guide, it makes me wonder. How much money did you expect to get for those essays? They're nice and all that, but I wouldn't expect Random House to come banging on your door for the copyrights anytime soon. And nice as it may have been, I don't think the Survivor spoof is going to be publishable material. Those kinds of collaborative fiction efforts on H2G2 always end up reading like a bad acid trip. If you were to write your own fiction based on what went on there, I'm sure you'd be fine. If what occurred on H2G2 inspired you to write something else, they can't stop you. You can only copyright words... not concepts. Borrowing an idea from H2G2 is therefore perfectly acceptable.

If you don't like the fact that its a "free web" then.... umm... go form a cult or something

I don't give a rats ar*e what anyone does with what I put on the guide, as everyone else is in the same boat and we are all equals. And if I had anything of literary value who on the face of this planet, would I put it on here and not publish it! You're just taking it all to far..
There's no society on h2g2 that was formed out of pressure, just free-will so I don't really see what harm any of h2g2's policies can cause...

"Did you say silly?!? I resemble that!!!"

"H2G2 has to have copyright to the work you post here if they're going to make any money. "

This is true - up to a point.

h2g2 must have copyright to anything you post here if they are to publish it. Publishing it includes delivering it to a browser as a web page. If h2g2 didn't have a copyright on everything on the site then they couldn't show it to anyone other than the author.

I don't know about anyone else, but the idea of a website where I could only see the parts of forums containing my own postings or communicate with anyone else seems petty boring and altogether pointless.

;^)#

"The voice of wisdom has spoken! Does anyone other than I think this is a bit like whipping a dead horse?"

"Sorry Matthew...nice try."

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Hi, Mike (or shall I say Quorthon) long time no read,

I am out of England for to long to get the last sentnace and I didn´t get the bit about far far far right. You can guess my socialworker-heart starts pounding and the danger of putting you into the eastgerman-skins-box, so could you put it into talk I understand? U just remembered our good conversation on the text on what christanity and Hitler have in common

As for the thingy, copyright: I think, we will have to start rethinking copyright. Now that Bertelsmann has bought Napster, what does that meen for the music being swaped with it? Do Bertelsmann have a posibility to mass-prosecute people who swap matirial from artists under contract with theBertelsmann Music Group (BMG)?

I got the idea, that h2g2 has to have a copyright to publish this perhaps rather ludicrous and not well thought over posting. So. The whole thing seems so far off from my personal experience. I cannot see a server. With books I have an idea, that someone made it. But, my computer is just hooked to a telephone line, and well, When I talk over a phone, the Telecom doesn´t get a right to what I say, doesn´t it? And if we talked to each other in RL, well, the air doesn´t get a copyright to our speach...

These paragraphs and legal things are so mindboggling. I hade a few courses at university converning my work with children, but, the whole thing here reminds me of that breakfastserialpacket-episode in the HGTTG. So all I have to do is build that timemachine and sew h2g2 for the infringement of the same law...

Please excuse if this sounds a little incoherent. I am thinking to much at the moment.