h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

A constitution is by its very nature a product of the time it was written.
The danger comes as the world we live in evolves and we need ever more ammendments in order to keep the constitution relevant.
You wind up with a jobs programme for lobbyists and lawyers and eventually we all end up with no clue what the ing thing actually says.
We live in a time when many of us want less bureaucracy and less government interference in our lives and i don't see how adding a whole new level of laws will help that.

I find this topic interesting from my vantage here in the US. I have a lot of problems with the way the US government governs (mostly behind closed doors with money-bearing lobbyists), but the US Constitution seems to have held up pretty well over the years. Less than 30 Amendments, and ten of those were passed almost immediately (The Bill of Rights).

I took a course on the history of the Supreme Court once, a lot of very interesting cases. One memorable example involved "Freedom of Speech" as defined by the First Amendment:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

The case involved a Vietnam-era situation where a man wearing a denim jacket was walking through a courthouse in Califonia (I think). The jacket was embroidered with the phrase "F**k the Draft". He was arrested for obscenity, and his case went all the way up to the Supreme Court. The Court ruled in his favor, saying "One man's obscenity is another's lyric." Got that one right, IMHO, based on the pretty clear language of the Bill of Rights.

A constitution would mean a rewriting of many of our laws as they are nearly all self referential if some laws were to take precedence our legal system would struggle to cope. I also think that any document that limits the politicans power will end up being used to protect their power and will expand when need be. AS has already been said there is nothing to stop the next goverenment repealing it. I think a constitution is more important when a country is just starting than later on as its laws develop given the nature of our laws a constitution would be virtually impossible to write without it interfering with the rest of our laws too much.

Hi all,

While we recognise that 'Don't mention the war' has connections with Fawlty Towers, this has now veered far too close to a campaign slogan for our liking. Therefore, rather than disrupt the flow of the conversation by removing entire posts, we're going to have to edit the subject headers on the last page or so of postings.

As the guidelines state above your posting window, please avoid slogans.

"We now return you to your regular programmes..."

While I appreciate the political sensitivities I also think there is a good case to be made for the BBC staying neutral by answering to the license payer and not the government of the day. IMHO current moderation policy appears to be leaning towards the Government.

Moderation and censorship go hand in hand and that could well begin to supply fuel to h2g2 knockers.

Am I right in thinking this is the first UK General Election for h2g2 under the auspices of the BBC. In which case I suppose we are into virgin territory and policy will develop as we go along.

I'm speechless! Probably a preferred position for me to be in for the italics

I find the editors interpretations to be 'curiouser and curiouser'

We have a long tradition of poking fun at the leaders here in Britain.
I know we need rules because of the Beebs position but humour is not electioneering.

I must admit i find the 'I won't vote for Tony because of the War' lobby both fascinating and sad.

Fine. Thats one policy. I'd guess that those of you who feel this way should feel grateful that you are sufficiently cushioned from the potential impact of a Tory government that you can put the work of the last 8 years at risk by actively participating in the potential re-election of a hardline Thatcherite government and al that entails.

Ask the miners. Ask the shipbuilders. Damn it, ask most of Britains car-makers.

And before anyone asks, I am a civil servant. This government done me little or no favours. I don't have the proof, but I'd guess that my average wage increase is somewhat short of inflation and certainkly less than I would have received in the private sector. And now they want to f**k around with my pension and put my retirement age up.

I have no personal love for this governmet. But I do recognise that they have taken huge strides in many areas for many of the most disadvantaged in society.

It isn't the war exactly its more generally about the trust or lack of it we have in a particular political leader.
For the record Tory,Labour aren't the only choices.

Blues shark I have made similar points a good few posts back, about voting for Labour cos I too remember the 18 years of Tory horror, that I feel so blighted my life and many others. You're not alone and I'm pretty confident from convos with my neighbours that many many people will think about that when they actually step into the polling booth.

Hootoo although a brilliant thing and full of great people, I sometimes think is a little skewed in terms of being a representative sample of people who will vote. I do like the political debate though - it has made me think about stuff even if It's probably not going to influence the way I'll vote

>We live in a time when many of us want less bureaucracy and less government interference in our lives and i don't see how adding a whole new level of laws will help that.<

An interesting point. Frankly, I'm not sure it's true, but what I do think we are witnessing is the death of party politics in this country. There is actually damn all to choose between the three main parties, though we are not yet quite as stymied for choice as the US was last time out of the gate. (Kerry's support was fuelled by a massive wave of 'anti-Bushism' which in no way represented any idea that Kerry's policies were any different in the majority of cases.)

It is becoming increasingly clear that organizations such as Tesco's (who merely happen to be the first example into my head following yesterdays announcements) operate more control financially, dietary and socially over the lives of their customers than any government could ever hope to do.

They certainly have more control over the future of the countryside and those who make a living from it than any politician could hope to have, banned fox-hunting or no banned fox-hunting. I'd be more than happy to see a *lot* more regulation of the supermarkets in their relationships with their suppliers.

>For the record Tory,Labour aren't the only choices.<

They are the only choices for forming a government. The LibDems have already said that they hope to get as many as *seventy* seats in this election.

They aren't even *trying* to form a government this time round.

I'm afraid that *every* vote in a marginal constiuency where Labour are in direct competition with the Tories for a third or fourth party (be it LibDem, Green, Respect, UKIP or Veritas is a vote for the Tories.

Some people need to come up to date - "hardline Thatcherite government and all that entails"

-"18 years of Tory horror, that I feel so blighted my life and many others."

Margret Thatcher is no longer leader of the Conservative party.

Britain today is no longer the country it was 15 years ago.

Come to the 21st Century boys.

On the contrary. I said it to many people at the time he was elected leader of the party, and many, many Tories agreed with me.

Howard was a mistake. He has the stench of Thatchers dead hand about him.

I cannot, and will not, forgive or forget any mameber of that disgraceful government.

*doesn't get upset about the subject line*

>>I cannot, and will not, forgive or forget any member of that disgraceful government<<

I feel much the same way about Labour. I will not give my vote to that party.

>>those of you who feel this way should feel grateful that you are sufficiently cushioned from the potential impact of a Tory government that you can put the work of the last 8 years at risk <<

Perhaps, but I am not voting to change the Government, I expect Labour to win. I'd be more interested in reducing their majority in Parliament.

My constiuancy is Labour chasing a Lib Dem majority so I'm in no danger of returning a Tory however I recognise this is not the case for everyone.

If Maggie hadn't taken on the unions we would not have some of the most productive and advanced motor manufacturing plants in the world such as Nissan and Jaguar. Instead we would have a series of Rovers. I remember Red Robbo.

Funny. I could have sworn that Nissan was Japanese. And that Jaguar was owned by the Germans.

Of course, I do remember a time when we didn't have to buy our coal from Poland, and had a ship building industry that kept Tyneside and Belfast proud and prosperous.

Regarding car manufacture - what is going to happen to Rover ? The only option I see is to nationalize it - who would do that ? Nobody.

I no longer see Labour as the party of the worker - I see it as the party of the wishy-washy.

Incidently Blues, most of us have already had our pensions ruined by the current incumbents - my final salary scheme has closed and I'm now on a purchase scheme - I've increased my contributions, but estimate I will have to work a further 5 years at least, to be where I was before. Plus of course my pension was never inflation proofed.

Yes and the thousands of Japanese that earn a good living in Sunderland and of course Euros are the currency in Hailwood and there are hundereds of wurst shops. Of course Uk doesn't make any profits from it's investments in USAsia or China or Russsia. Oh nearly forgot Prudence assures me we are the 4th biggest economy in the whole wide world. Well done Red Robbo and don't forget how successful Liverpool was under Deggsey. Bring back Old Labour - not a campaign slogan.

The ruining of pensions was NOTHING to do with the present incumbents, as well you know. It was a direct result of the de-regulation of the financial markets by guess who...

Maggie and Ronnie.

And I'm sorry if you feel bitter about my pension. I often feel bitter about the 20-30% extra I could be earning in the private sector, as well as christmas bonuses, company cars and many other perks that I don't enjoy for the privilege of being a public servant.

But that was the deal I made. I get paid bad wages, get no perks but my pay off for that is a decent pension, which I and many others like me will fight tooth and nail to keep. Sue me.