h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

[Bagpuss]

Nowt to say about the changing Atelier, seeing as how I've not been here that long.

I find the debate interesting.

The Atelier has been around for something like 5 years, in that time we have all grown as individuals and as a group. So it makes sense that there have been changes in the way we deal with things.

Do we owe something to the greater hootoo, I'm not sure.

Should we go back to the way it used to be. Well we were a smaller group that was still getting to know each other. It seems to me like a relationship. In the beginning is silliness and the finding out of new and interesting things that spark new and different and intersting conversations. After a while, you get comfortable in the relationship, you get to know the other person/persons/entitites and you settle down a bit.

I've tried to think of some major topic to bring up, the problem is that we've handled many of them, and with the knowledge I have about those who are engaged in topic conversation, some topics are just dead ends.

As for the Lurkers, I love them, I know they are out there, and I wish that they would drop a calling card or something just to let us know how many actually exist. However, if you lurk, and never drop a calling card or engage in any conversation, then I don't believe that it's our job to make the conversations easier to join. In fact I'm not sure how we could make the conversations easier to join.

I like the free flow of information, sometimes it sparks a major conversation, sometimes not. Do I wish there was more substantial conversation, yes. Does it worry me that there isn't, no.

Courtesy

[tartaronne ]

Responding to a point made in post 32 by Sporky -- A reason for setting up the atelier was to avoid some of the activities you've classed as "play" -- smiley marathons, endless pizza parties, and generally those threads with excessive ration of noise to signal. I meant something more specific by "play" -- awareness of and willingness to riff on one's virtual surroundings.

And during the Lincoln Meet I was urged to get back into subject header games.



Agapanthus, all you have to do is ask. Yes, there ~are~ rules of thumb for those quests some of us go on, but most of them are in print, and we do apprenticeships. Ask GDZ.



B, do you think h2g2 has changed to where we were once a member planet in a system but now we're more of a comet?

OK, some thoughts after having caught up with off-h2g2 things:

Mina mentioned something about the danger of being ignored the first time a newcomer posts in the Atelier - I haven't seen this happening for quite some time. Quite the opposite really, we all seem to make an effort to say hi and welcome to anyone who posts in the Atelier for the first time.

Postings being ignored? Overlooked is a better description and yes, it happens to all of us, sooner or later. Heck, I even remember saying something like 'Oi! Didn't anyone read what I posted?' when I felt completely overlooked - but it'll pass, and it's not like people do it on purpose.

I seriously doubt that the Atelier can be shaped into a a 'one-size-fit-all' thing - some people fit right in, and some don't. I don't see any reason for trying to accommodate(sp?) *everyone*

>>What has happened is we have got past the point where we need to pretened to be other than we are in this group in order to cover our embarrasments and shyness.>>

That's an interesting point of view, and I think I agree with you... although I still enjoy a little bit of 'imagining things into place' every now and then...

*settles down on the hearth rug to give both unaus a good cuddle*

(I don't really need to sign my postings with 'Titania' do I - not with Ripley hanging off my back?)

>> B, do you think h2g2 has changed to where we were once a member planet in a system but now we're more of a comet?

Nope.

I think the known universe has changed from where we were once a member planet in a heliocentric universe to being a member planet of a minor solar system somewhere in a pretty interesting galaxy.

In other words, the universe got larger around us, and we grew at the same time but not at the same rate.

B

I know I joined the atelier very late on in all of this, but I have to say that I agree with B a lot here. Even in the time that I've been here I've seen the atelier evolve and I like the fact that everyone comes and talks about what they've done that day and everyone is willing to dole out advise if you've just ruined your new shoes or burnt popcorn to the bottom of the pan or broken up with your boyfriend. I like the fact that I feel as if I have an entire group of friends that I can turn to in a time of need. Okay I don't know many of you very well, and I'm probably very annoying at times, but you all put up with me and I appreciate that.

When I first joined I accidently stumbled in whilst reading the American Politics thread which got me a bit huffy. This wasn't quite the right way to join, but once I realised I had then I read everything that I was told to, and read a few threads before joining in. Whilst it was daunting to start with, I soon got into the rhythm of it, and remember this is in the day of now -- the long conversations about a pair of shoes or the latest library disasters for people, all crossing with moving house and getting degrees and breaking up relationships and restarting jobs and making cookies. I like that. I like that it's a mishmash.

I also feel that role-play is slightly, if not very, redundant now. I did look back on some of the oldest threads when I first joined, but I think we have so many members, and we're all so willing to be open about ourselves now, that it would just be something that actually *removed* something from the atelier for me.

I love the fact that something new will have happened since I last logged on. I love the fact that people are telling me about lives that I have no experience in.

So as a new-ish still person I feel that role-play would take something away, that being a newbie is daunting but that if you're a certain sort of person you'll fit in fine. You can't make the atelier a great place for everyone. I find the Forum daunting a lot of the time. I only play one role-play game because that's all I've got the energy and attention span for. I love the atelier for what it has evolved into.


Kat

I disagree that the role-playing thing is related to getting to know fellow-salonistas better. I think you're confusing that with the whole concept of online persona, the entity you originally made of yourself before stepping into your first thread.

"Asteroid Lil" was originally quite a bit different from the entity who carries her name online, but, in the 15 years since she was invented, Lil and her creator have converged and are close to being the same.

But Lil frequently likes to go off on quests with other people she knows well (online), not all of them salonistas, and sometimes she takes it to another level and puts an alternate identity on Lil, such as happened with the Marie Celeste game that Garius launched.

The quests are a form of communal creativity whose quality has improved as the rules have become internalized and mutually agreed on. They aren't the same kind of thing as a conversation.

Simulpost, Kat -- and your feelings about the American Politics thread confirms to me that I was right to take it out of the main conversation.

>> with the whole concept of online persona, the entity you originally made of yourself before stepping into your first thread.

Um.

I have never (with the exception of my posts as Greensleeves) been anything other than exactly who and what I am on this or any other site.

My name is Ben. That is the first syllable of my given name, it appears on my passport, birth certificate, divorce papers and phone bill.

I am 43 years old, female, white, middle class, and IT professional.

I was an IT contractor when I joined the site, but have recently taken a permanent job. I am living in rented accommodation while I buy a very small house to live in in semi-rural West Yorkshire.

All of this and more was made explicit in my early user pages, and since I have left my user pages blank it has still been garnerable from my posts here.

Call me a humourless bitch, but I just don't get what you're talking about, Lil.

B

Oh, and I am English, which is oddly important to me. I am also British which isn't important at all, and European which is.

B

*twists her antennae into a double helix and then lets go*

No, it didn't help. I think... what do I think?... I think... ... no I don't... hang on... I'll get there in a moment... I think we should post things, even if they're personal, if we can imagine a substantive conversation coming out of what we're posting.

*drifts off to find an ant-szed cup of *

Lil - in print where? Am I being dimwitted and have already read these, or have I never found them?

And as for asking, yes, well, if I only had to ask, I would have, but WHO to ask, and how to not spoil it for them while asking, are not things readily apparent to a novice. I am perhaps irrationally terrified of spoiling things for people well in to a lovely game. I know how incredibly difficult I found it as a kid to be polite or patient with other kids who had come to tea and weren't very good at imaginative play. They could never get WHY Sindy was an archaeologist hanging off the wardrobe (NO! Cliff!) by a skipping-rope (Climbing equipment! Obviously! And the Sacred Temple is at the top! No it is NOT a suitcase!). So, you know, I don't want to do the equivalent of insisting that Sindy come back down here and play at keeping house or looking for the missing teensy wee plastic shoe. It was important to me then and so I felt that 'doing it properly' would be important to a role-player now. Perhaps someone could role-play Sensei or Head Wizard and collect up all the willing novices next time for tutorials...

And some people don't do role-play. They just don't. But they do proper chatting with the like-minded. Isn't that what role-playing is in the end, with added costumes and excitement? The like-minded enjoying each other's minds? Does it matter that some people don't do it in costume, hanging off a cliff, with battle-axes and a horde of winged goblins bearing down on them?

I don't know. I'm always hurling myself into sofas and onto carpets and pestering Matina and I even have a purple pet thesaurus who has to be strictly kept away from the library. I've always seen the Atelier as a place rather than a list of typed exchanges. But it does take a certain sort of mind to do that easily, and it would be a little, (erm, weren't we talking about being MORE inclusive, not less?) exclusive to... um... err... 'value differently' people who don't do mental VR. A great visual imagination doesn't make a chap/chapess MORE likely to be amusing, witty, charming, kind, friendly, worthwhile, sweet, generous, useful, caring, and damn good fun. I'd hate to miss good people because they didn't want to play fetch with my thesaurus.

I have rambled so much on that I suppose I have no missed several other valid points made by my dear colleagues. Sorry sorry sorry.

Yep, as I thought. Lots of other lovely Salonistas came in and spoke while I was burbling.

On the 'member planet' metaphor - I think we were once an earth-type planet , but it is possible that we are now a gas giant.

Gas giant >> hot air >> lots of talking >> geddit?

Ok, I'll get me coat.

B

Ag, might I take this opportunity to join in with Santragenius' (or whatever his name might be right now) appraisal of your way of expressing yourself - it has certainlhy made me chuckle and even made my day more than once!

*burnt*

(german chocolate cake with coconut frosting
is proof that the universe harbors us no ill
will. particularly when coupled with a generous
portion of ice cream. imho, that is.)

given the advanced state of my terminal CRS (having
recently {to the chagrin of the 'intelligent design'
crowd [yes, i am still in kansas, and once again the
state board of education is attempting to 'address'the
theory of evolution as pseudo science] mutated/evolved
into CRAFT) i will attempt to address only a couple of
the questions posed.

4. i seem to recall that mindspring emerged from
the same phylum(?)of ooze as deloris. lil's isp
in a previous life, before she fled hurrican alley,
was an unbearably slow offering named mindspring.

5. i think they were cloned/created/pilfered from the aroma
cafe, which lil tended for an absent proprietor. (probably
loony or odra's idea. actually, since neither is here to
disavow this claim, i am sure it was one of them.) i seem
to recall that all manner of entities, constructs, and
adventures were launched from that particular environ. or,
they might have come around after the fire. i don't remember
precisely. i will take shelter behind my self diagnosed case
of terminal CRAFT.

addressing the weightier matters brought up in that same posting
i beg you refer to the opening point of this post. that really is
just about the total of my understanding of the universe. sorry.

(gnil) r25j

I have been following the discussion.
I don't think the atelier can actually be changed, it's too large and old for that, it changes itself.
There is a lot of things I like about it and also many I dislike. I can't see a way to change those either. People are different.
I have been in and out for many times. Sometimes that has been noticed. That is irrelevant anyway. What I never understood was that the atelier was about playing or roleplaying. I can't do that. Sorry.
But I'd still like to hang around if you don't mind. Atelier is a nice place.

[Hati]

Ben, there's no need for crossing swords like that. My use of 'you' in my remarks about personae was nonspecific, and you should have seen it as such.

I'm certainly not calling you a humorless bitch. Netiquette, remember?

On my list of conversations, the Atelier backlog is the most important to me to catch up with from all of the h2g2 conversations I'm subscribed to - and even at times when it's absolutely enourmous I *still* make an effort to read it all.

I can't say that about *any* other threads on h2g2.