h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Entry: SETI - A critical overview - A292024
Author: Twophlag Gargleblap - now paying a little bit of attention to H2G2 once again. - U109577

I realize this is going to honk some people off, but it has to be said in the interests of balance.

Not sure if I was honked off by this, but then I don't think I've ever been honked off before, so I can't really judge for sure...

I thought in general it was a good critique of the Seti project, especially on the general points regarding its likelyhood of success, its funding and its methods. It was well written and enjoyable to read.

However, the strand of the argument that suggests that SETI it is part of a kind of humanist secular religion and an attempt to find our place in the universe was less convincing to me. This might have been part of Carl Sagan's beliefs, but it need not be the only or the primary motivating force behind SETI. I suspect that simple curiosity is also at play here.

I agree... I consider simple curiosity (especially regarding lofty theoretical matters) to be a manifestation of human religious impulse, though. Nevertheless I'm sure this comment can be removed if others find themselves tripping on it... its inclusion in the first place was because this piece was originally written along with several others dealing with similar topics of the human search for meaning.

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Well that right there is an interesting idea. It would make for a great guide entry in itself, I reckon.

Well I liked it. Which is a shame because I was in the mood for being honked off.

The arguement for intelligent life is expressed beautifully in the Monty Python Galaxy song, and relatively accurately too.

I'm sure you don't want to tie this down into a SETI -> Religion -> Faith issue, so I'll leave that side of it, but I thought you managed a fair balance.

Interesting to read. I think it needs some headers to make it easier to follow. It seems to assume stuff like we all know who Jimmy Carter is and what he believes. I don't think that's necessarily the case. Even Karl Sagan probably deserves a bit of explanation and a link, if there is a suitable one.

I think this entry is amusing and wonderful. I have crunched numbers on my old p.c. for seti- your scepticism is amusing. Don`t think you need the religious link in the 1st.paragraph though. Religion is about faith and science is mainly logic, or should be! Not much logic in faith. Good entry though, should annoy some believers!

Well, I'd stand by the comment, normally, but I'm really beyond the need to take this article off-topic by having it devolve into a debate about religion. That being said, it's a pretty minor change to make... one parenthetical statement to delete. If this piece makes it to the sub-eds i'll leave it to their conscience (since in my experience they love to gleefully hack and mangle articles, I might as well leave them something obvious to hack at).

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/2892269.stm
Another piece of evidence?

Researcher PSG

'tis a pity because I received an email from the SETI@home people a short time ago telling me that I had processed the signal data for one of the candidate radio sources.

Of course, this doesn't mean that there's nothing there. Just that they weren't broadcasting when the antenna was looking at them.

nifty... i'm from ottawa too. small internet.

Isn't it, though?

Hi Twophlag

An interesting read



I agree about the relgious parralel being superfluous, but as you say, it gives the Subs something to hack


<< A fair amount of money and directed effort gets spent on this ... >>

I'd be interested to know how much and whose money (funding I presume) it is



As *sentient* means (roughly) being capable of perceiving via the senses, << sentience on our own planet is >> *hardly* <>

And even if it was, it being << something of an evolutionary fluke >> is no big deal, not for this (possibly nice) << humanistic stargazer >> at any rate



<< was represented as wise and kind and mysterious and powerful, which is >>... a few two many *and*s perhaps?

six7s
*staying tuned *

The Voyager vinyl record was supplied with a gramophone, with graphical instructions; the playback rate (ie RPM, which is actually 16 2/3) was written in binary multiples of the period of some oscillation of a hydrogen atom (I don't understand what oscillation exactly).

Just so you understand that the record didn't depend on aliens having their own gramophone... OTOH, it does depend on them having a sense of hearing, so I suppose the point is moot.

P.S. By a meaningless coincidence I'm currently listening to "In Space" by Röyksopp...

Sorry to be the dissenter, but I don't like this article's style, too arrogant. Lots of scientists and engineers have put a lot of effort into SETI, it's not fair to talk about it like this.

I spend my time searching for dark matter, so I think spending a lot of time and money hunting for something that may not exist, and may never be disproved is very worthwhile. Even if you disagree, there are many worse things to waste time and money on (even if we can't talk about them...)

I guess you've insulted my religion

Scientists and engineers are as fallible as the rest of us. The scientific method remains an effective way of figuring some things out. For a good read on scientific orthodoxy and rigid thinking in the scientific community, give Thomas Kuhn's "The Structure of Scientific Revolutions" a try.

I'm interested in hearing more about dark matter. Last I checked in on the current state of cosmological thinking, those in the know had taken to referring to that portion of the universe which was neither matter nor dark matter as 'quintessence'. I found that extremely amusing, because Ptolemy once used the very same term to describe the mysterious substance that composed the ethereal globes he supposed rotated about the earth with stars and planets imbedded therein. Seems like the more we learn, the less we know.

Quintessence is just a name given to one of the many theories that try to explain the 73% of the universe that's neither matter nor dark matter. It appears to have gone a little out of fashion recently as the data released by NASA from the WMAP satellite seems to support other theories. But knowing cosmologists this could all change in a few years...

As dark matter accounts for most of the galaxy but has so far evaded detection, some people have commented it's like God. But we can search for dark matter, a discovery is by no means impossible, and even if we don't find anything, we can learn for about it by testing different models and theories.

What happens if we find something. Do we:
* go and say "Hi there!" and get blown to pieces
* go and say "Hi there!" and accidently/intentionally blow them to pieces
* ignore them (but that defeats the point of trying to find them
* go and create a perfect civilisation together due to sharing our knowledge (which they later use against us).

You choose.

Have you seen the Edited Entry on this topic? A649893 The SETI@Home Project. I'm not really sure how much of an overlap there is though...

Your conclusion is written in the first-person, something our <./>writing-guidelines</.> advise against. Could you have a go at rewriting this from a third-person perspective?

A Scout has recommended this one already, which shows there's some interest in getting this into the Edited Guide. But I'd like to see a response to the above before accepting it. Hope that's okay,

Jimster

Hello, it's me again. I thought this was a well written article, with your usual humour, but i agree with a few points already made ....... heading the paragraghs and referencing the people such as Carter and Sagan would be a good idea for the uninitiated, i for one will read 'contact' just to find out a little more. I thought it was well balanced, but ......... i think that the reseach is so important we have to keep striving to ensure we don't miss whoever may be out there, regardless of how limited our range is!!
However i think that due to our nature and any 'jolly' sci-fi we, as movie makers produce, we will destroy 'them' before they get to communicate. We will assume if they turn up they have hostile intent and show our aggressive nature. This being the case maybe we should just stop looking, untill we find a way to quell our animalistic nature and treat all those (as you quite rightly pointed out) that are unfortunate on our own world with respect and dignity .........!!

Hear endeth the lesson for today!!

Jules xx