h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Entry: The Lord of the Rings - A2697249
Author: Luthiena - viEna, the cat, cared for by lil old me.....Rock is dead - long live paper and scissors - U553748

Whew, my labour of love finally finished

First up, fantastic entry, however (and I hate to do this to a labour of love! ) I do have a few little qualms with the entry.

Firstly; spoilers. Now it seems that the world and his wife has seen the film, read the book and bought the T-shirt, but as crazy as it may seem, some people may not know how it ends.

"leads him to Mount Doom where they struggle over the Ring and Gollum perishes in the fires along with the Ring."

This bit sort of gives away the details of the conflict above the crack of Doom when coupled with the Frodo bit.

"He never fully resisted the power the Ring offered and eventually tried to take it from Frodo; when he didn’t succeed he repented and threw all his efforts into protecting Merry and Pippin from orcs, a task he died trying to complete.

He was sent down the Falls of Rauros as a hero and remembered as a hero of the fellowship."

Could this be re-worded so as not to give away the nature of Boromir's death? Also, I don't really like the word hero being used twice in a sentence.

2) Possible additions - Now there's very little I can put here (well done! ) but there's a bit you can add to Faramir, seeing as in the book he's the only human who passes up the ring (when Frodo pleads for help, and he should take it to Denethor), possibly adding the quote which I can never remember which is basically "I wouldn't use the ring if it lay on the floor and my city was on fire".

Gandlaf - "they are not human but seem to be almost immortal, like elves." possibly adding the bit about a wizard never dying until his job is complete.

Aside from those, excellent entry, which should get into the Guide no problem!!

Psycorp603 (Sub-Ed)

Yes, labour of love indeed! Terrific stuff.

Are you going to make a distinction between the book and the films? Although both are quite similar there are some crucial changes, such as the role of the Huorns and Ents in Helm's Deep etc.

I didn't realise Sauron was a balrog. You learn something new every day!

You also might mention that it was Wormtongue who killed Saruman.

You might also mention that Peregrin Took was responsible for the mess in Moria. It's one of the really pivotal points in the book and the film.

A BBC poll recently made LOTR the UK's No. 1 favourite book. There may be links to this programme within BBCi.

You might also italicise The Hobbit book when you are mentioning it.

You could easily make 3 entries out of this : one on JRRT, one on the LOTR characters, and another on the plot. Worth thinking about at least.

Great stuff!

Woodpigeon

There are already entries on related stuff, particularly:

A672022 - The Life and Works of J.R.R.Tolkien
A877881 - The Hobbit by J.R.R.Tolkien
A724961 - The Major Villains of the Lord of the Rings

and there are also reviews of the first two films and the animated film version that I've seen on here as well.

Having said that, I think there's room for your entry too - although you ought to check that you're not duplicating too much information, especially when you talk about Tolkien's life.

On to the main part of your entry - I think the character descriptions are really good on the whole. I would perhaps include Treebeard ("Young Master Gandalf" - one of my favourite lines in the third film) and maybe Haldir (I think that's his name, anyway) in the list of characters too. Oh, and there's Tom Bombadil too - certainly a worthwhile character in the first book even if there was no time for him to appear in the first film.

Maybe you could also mention that there's a book of appendices as well? Certainly my box set is split into six with a seventh book of appendices regarding the history of Middle Earth as well as some stories of Arwen and Aragorn, and also plenty of information about family trees and that sort of thing.

LOTR is a favourite read of mine and I want to give this entry the attention it's due, which I don't have enough time to do right now, but I've noticed a handful of errors.

Sauron was not a Balrog, he was one of the Maiar, as were the Istari. The Maiar were divine beings (and therefore immortal), only slightly less in importance than the Valar. The Balrogs were created by Morgoth, possibly from other Maiar whom he corrupted, much in the same way that he created Orcs by corrupting elves.

Galadriel did not openly wear her ring until after Sauron was defeated. Whether that means she hid it away somewhere, or was able to secretly wear it isn't entirely clear, but from reading the book I suspect that both she and Elrond did not wear their rings. Even though Sauron had never touched them there was the possibility that the one ring could still control them. Gandalf had the third elf ring.

Elrond was originally half-elven (and was called Elrond Half-Elven), but chose immortality and became fully elven. He and Galadriel were the two most powerful elves in Middle-Earth at the time of the war of the ring.

I believe that Smeagol's people were desribed in the book as being 'hobbit-like', not as hobbits.


Scout

On this site you will find a minority of people who know nothing of the Lord of the Rings, and care even less. I am one such person.

This I guess gives me a certain advantage over my peers here as I have no baggage and can read this truly from a layman's perspective.

So from the top...

- Overall it's a nice piece of writing

- Did he go back to France after recovering from trench fever? And what *is* trench fever anyway?

- "...one of the world?s greatest literary geniuses". That strikes me as a bit of a sweeping statement. I certianly wouldn't class him as a genius, a talent maybe, a genius no.

- The Books - what were the names of the three books in the trilogy? I recall there being some hoo-hah about one of the films being called the Two Towers, and there being a bunch of silly Americans who took offence over this as they saw it as a reference to the World Trade Center. Was the book called the Two Towers originally?

- I'd move the 'Ring' as a character to the top of the list. As you say, it is an inanimate object, but it's a potent character that makes its presence felt throughout the book. So it's dead important to the book then. For example the opening sentence of the Bilbo Baggins section means nothing to me as it stands as I have no idea what the ring of power is.

- Peregrin Took - wasn't he the drummer in T.Rex? Is there a section about Peregrin Took missing? The text below the subheader talks about a different character called Pippen

- The synopsis bits - this in my mind is the best bit of the whole entry Don't worry at all about spoilers. A heck of a lot of people have read the book and watched the film, so it's hardly secret knowledge that you're giving away here. The way it comes across to me is as a concise plot synopsis: a sort of a 1000 pages to 2 minutes flat type of an affair. It reads very well and is easily understandable - remember I'm coming in with a knowledge base of nil, so if it works for me, it works full stop.

Is that all that's required of an EG entry though? Apart from the brief biog of JRRT (which may overlap with existing EG material) and the descriptions of the main characters, the bulk of this entry is simply a plot synopsis - no analysis of the plot, no conjecture, no discussion of any allegories or JRRT's disputation of same

Good point Gosho...

Well I've made a few minor alterations where needed (such as the Sauron thing) and I did have an extra page or two on the main themes but I decided that the entry was long enough already.

I am sorry it might contain spoilers

I have read the other three entries and don't think the overlap is too bad as my entry focuses mainly on the Lord of the Rings giving author background and characters as a extra.....

Can I just add to what I said earlier - I don't think it's too long as it is, so maybe a mention of the main themes might be a good addition? Just a suggestion...

I will add the bit I did on themes but it won't be til tomorrow afternoon as I am (unfortunately) doing a college project...

You *know* how glad I am you took this on, Luthiena. Yes, it'll provoke a lot of discussion before it's accepted, and with a topic this huge it's inevitable that it won't sail through PR without everyone having a opinion, but this is *superb* to get all this in by this stage.

Best of luck with your college project, and *thanks* for taking on such a massive topic.

It's ok

It's an awfully long time since I read the Complete Guide to Middle Earth, and an even longer time since I read the Silmarillion, but 'Valar' is the spelling I remember (and the one Gosho used). I'd like to take issue with Gosho's use of the word 'divine', though; the Ainur could be seen in that light, but it's also quite reasonable to view Eru/Iluvatar as somewhat analogous to the Judeo-Christian God, and the Ainur as roughly analogous to angels. In this case only Iluvatar is divine, i.e. a deity (and he is, after all, the being with the Flame Imperishable).

The nature of the wizards was never terribly clear, not least because there are only two making major appearances, and one more (Radagast) making a fleeting one. (I don't even know of there being any given number of them; I think I recall a reference to 'the rods of the five wizards', but as far as I'm aware Tolkein never built on that.) I think it's generally accepted that they, and Sauron, are Maiar, though. According to Arda (see link below), the Balrogs were also (corrupted) Maiar. (I think the Balrog and Gandalf are assumed to be roughly matched in power.)

http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/

I think I recall a reference on Sam's part to there appearing to be a 'star' on Galadriel's finger, indicating some sort of magical concealment of her ring. I don't remember any reference to Gandalf's ring until the end -- it 'blazed openly' on his hand, I think, or something similar.

Regarding the piece on Sauron, I don't think it's properly true to say that he 'became an evil all of his own' following the forging of the One Ring; rather, he became that once Morgoth was cast into the void. In forging the One Ring he transferred much of his existing power into it; I don't think the precise effects of its destruction were ever made clear, but if he wasn't actually destroyed he was presumably rendered too weak to manifest. It's probably worth noting his burning eye appearance; if I remember correctly from the Complete Guide, his body was ruined in the destruction of Numenor, and he was thereafter unable to assume any 'fair-seeming' form. Arda seems to have a different interpretation, however.

Right. The above should help either to improve the Entry or to get my memory refreshed. Good luck with this one; it's showing lots of promise, and it's not exactly a 'quiet life' option.

Thanks for correcting me - the Maiar and Valar weren't divine - as in gods in their own right, but were immortal, so the analogy to angles is a good one

It's laid out in The Silmarillion that both Olorin (Gandalf) and Sauron were originally of the Maiar, and that the Balrogs were presumed to be Maiar who were first swayed by Morgoth, and then corrupted.

You're right about his body being destroyed in the downfall of Numenor too - also described in The Silmarillion.

I'm going have a look at that link now.

This might be a good link for you, Luthiena:

http://tolkien.cro.net/else/ngershaneck.html

and maybe this (although it covers rather too much ground):

http://valarguild.org/varda/Tolkien/encyc/maiar.html

This one's interesting:

http://valarguild.org/varda/Tolkien/encyc/papers/Istari.htm

Are you sure Faramir is fully humman?

I only ask as i noticed the mistake in Empire mags quiz books, asking how many humans went with the fellowship. With Aragorn being Dunedain, only Boromir is human. But i did read somewhere that The house of Stewards has Dunedain ancestory. Sorry i cant be of more help, but should be looked into (mainly because if there is dunedain blood in faramir, then its true that no human can resist the ring)

I though the Númenóreans were human. It was just that Aragorn had an elven ancestor which stopped him from being completely human. Also as I said in a different thread, Saruman and Sauron were chosen by the same Vala to go to Middle earth.

"Sauron was originally a Maiar (created by the Vala, like the Istari), a servant of Morgoth, but after the forging of the Rings of Power he became an evil all of his own."

He was actualy sent to help fight Melkor, but was corrupted, much like Saruman.

And to help clear things up, Vala is the singula and Valar is the plural

The Numenoreans were descendents of the Edain - the only tribe of men not been swayed by Morgoth and to have fought with the Valar against the Enemy. The Kings of Numenor were men descended from Elrond's bro, Elros, so they can trace their ancestry through Tuor and Huor back to Beor the Old, through Idril, Turgon, and Fingolfin to Finwe, and through Dior to Luthien and Beren, and then Elwe and Melian. Pretty impressive ancestry

These last few posts beautifully illustrate the need to nail down at what level this entry is being pitched. I've read them, I've read them a couple of times; and quite frankly you might as well be talking in Hungarian for all that I could understand them.

I refer back to my original posting. As someone with no knowledge of the subject I found the entry approachable and understandable, which is exactly what EG entries should be like. If however it decends into the minutae of which Ork was the goblin's half-brother's cousin then my eyes are just going to glaze over, and I'll be wandering off muttering something about people who need to get out a bit more often